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It is Time - Suspend the Uber Star

Buffalo Sabres right wing Patrick Kaleta (36) holds his nose on the bench after he was hit by Washington Capitals' Alex Ovechkin (not shown) during the third period of an NHL hockey game, Wednesday, Nov. 25, 2009, in Washington. Ovechkin was charged with boarding and game misconduct. The Capitals won 2-0. (AP Photo/Nick Wass)

More photos » Nick Wass - AP

3 months ago: Buffalo Sabres right wing Patrick Kaleta (36) holds his nose on the bench after he was hit by Washington Capitals' Alex Ovechkin (not shown) during the third period of an NHL hockey game, Wednesday, Nov. 25, 2009, in Washington. Ovechkin was charged with boarding and game misconduct. The Capitals won 2-0. (AP Photo/Nick Wass)


Alexander Ovechkin. The sheer mention of his name invokes awe, disdain, and sparks debate. I like Ovechkin. I own about a dozen hockey jerseys, the only one that has nothing to do with Minnesota is a #8 Washington Caps jersey. I like his game, I like his personality, and I like waht he does for the game.

What I don't like is his immunity to the rules.

Make the jump, and let's discuss another non-Wild related issue, shall we?

Star-divide

Of course, this all stems from last night's ejection for Ovechkin after driving Patrick Kaleta into the boards from behind. Ovechkin was issued a major penalty, a misconduct penalty, and a game misconduct. Before we go to the video, let's discuss a bit. Ovechkin is not liked in several NHL cities. Pittsburgh and Philly topping that list. I have always taken their hated with a grain of salt, as Ovechkin plays for a rival team, and is one of the best players in the game. I will sell any one part of my body to have him in Iron Range Red.

But, the video evidence is there that Ovechkin is getting away with things that others are not.

Here is the hit from last night:

 

Alright? So, now we have seen that. Anyone ever seen anything comparable? I have. Several times. Almost everyone of them resulted in a suspension, too. This won't. I guarantee it. Why not you may ask? Well, let's just ask Down Goes Brown.

If you follow the flow chart, you land at a choice, "Has he ever been suspended before?" which leads to the box, "Yes he does it all the time, but since we never suspended him before, we just keep saying he has no prior record and hope no one notices."

And that's where we are at.

There is a knee-to-knee on Sergei Gonchar last season:

 

There is the cehcking from behind on Briere, from 2006:

There is evidence this season as well (This one looks awfully familiar.):

 

There is the slew foot on Rich Peverley earlier this season (for which he was fined the equivalent of about three seconds of pay):

I hate jumping on the suspend Ovechkin bandwagon. I really do. I like the Caps. I like Ovechkin. I like Caps fans, especially our friends over at Japer's Rink. All that said, it's time. It's time for an uber super star to be held to the same rules that Sean Avery, George Laraque, and Derek Boogaard are held to. It is time for players like Mike Richards Dion Phaneuf to be held to the same standard as Rob Scuderi and Steve Ott are held to.

Ovechkin is a marketing monster. He was recently signed by one of the biggest marketing groups in the world, the main reason being that he is marketable. He scores goals, he has a funny personality and goofy face. People who don't like hockey know who he is, and that makes him marketable. If the NHL suspends him, it hurts his marketability, and hurts their image.

Should that matter? Absolutely not. But we live in the real world, and it does matter. No one will ever admit it, but it does matter, and it does weigh in on whether or not a player like Ovechkin is suspended. If the NHL suspends Ovechkin, they are publicly admitting that their greatest player broke the rules to the point that he had to be removed from the game. They aren't going to do that. Not when there is not a huge line of people lined up waiting to give them money.

It's time. It's time for the NHL to grow up and suspend Ovechkin. He is not above the game, and he is certainly not above the law. If he is allowed to continue playing (and hitting) unabated, someone will be seriously hurt, despite intent.

Again, anyone who is coming into this debate today, please, I am begging you, do not call me an Ovechkin hater. I like the guy. I really do. He is one of my favorite players, and the Caps are one of my favorite teams. However, the hits are bad. They really are. And if you can look at them objectively, you would agree. I have defending Ovechkin several times, but the rap sheet is too long to ignore.

The NHL needs to change its image. This is the chance.

-Buddha.

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You’ve taken the highlights of bad hits from his whole career and it still only adds up to a handful. You could do the same to any physical player. You say there is a double standard, and that he’d be suspended if he weren’t Ovechkin. I ask whether there would be such an outcry if it were Cal Clutterbuck giving out that hit. Sabre’s home-team announcers in your video notwithstanding, that’s not even a hit from behind. It’s inches and milliseconds from being a totally clean hit. I don’t see any evidence of an intent to injure or an intention to hit illegally. The same goes for the collision with Gonchar: I see Ovechkin travelling in a straight line at Gonchar, trying to nail him cleanly, and Gonchar trying to move sideways out of the way and accidentally putting his own knee into Ovechkin’s path. Is it a penalty? Sure, it has to be. And that slew foot is pretty bad; I’m not trying to argue that Ovechkin has never done anything dirty. I just don’t think suspensions should be given out for the unintentional bad results of a tiny fraction of hits, for any player.

by AZDWK on Nov 26, 2009 4:58 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

As I have said a million times

If Clutterbuck makes a hit like this, the fans here would understand that he needs to be suspended. What I would ask you, is if it is Clutterbuck making this hit, does there need to be an outcry? No. He would already be suspended.

Only adds up to a handful? Is a handful not enough for you? Is one not too many?

It is not inches, nor milliseconds from being a clean hit. If it isn’t a hit from behind, it is boarding. Either way, it is a dirty hit.

http://www.hockeywilderness.com

by BReynolds on Nov 26, 2009 6:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Only adds up to a handful? Is a handful not enough for you? Is one not too many?

Really? In a 4+ year career of extremely physical hockey you expect the guy to never cross the line? He has. And he got punished for it. Every single physical player in the league has moments like this, and despite the outcry, most of them don’t go suspended. People want a big name head on a pike, I get it. But this isn’t the time to raise the call.

If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...

by Fehr and Balanced on Nov 27, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It is not inches, nor milliseconds from being a clean hit. If it isn’t a hit from behind, it is boarding. Either way, it is a dirty hit.

I have to disagree. I can buy that it’s boarding given that Kaleta’s position in relation to the boards made him vulnerable, but he also turned in to the hit. What I think AZDWK was getting at was that if Ovechkin hits Kaleta a split second earlier or Kaleta’s body is positioned slightly differently it’s a complete non-issue. That doesn’t mean it’s not a penalty, but I think it means it’s not fair to call it a dirty hit.

by David M. Getz on Nov 27, 2009 2:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

UPDATE

Washington Post reporting that there will be no additional discipline. Imagine that.

http://www.hockeywilderness.com

by BReynolds on Nov 26, 2009 6:31 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Do you really think this will ever change?

The rules around suspension simply don’t apply to the top players in the league. You have to do something completely shocking, tasteless, or flauntingly obvious (ie, cross-checking a linesman) to get a suspension in the NHL if you are an elite player.

Even Malkin skirted the clear and obvious rule calling for suspension when starting a fight in the last 5 minutes of a game during the playoffs.

The NHL is about making money first, and if they can organize fair games for their paying fans well, I guess that’s a bonus. Is it different in any other major money-making sports league in the world?

by SpaethCo on Nov 27, 2009 3:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There are two sets of rules: Rules for OVechkin and Crosby and rules the rest of the league has to abide by.

by Eric B on Nov 27, 2009 9:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah. That’s a reasonable position. Well put.

If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...

by Fehr and Balanced on Nov 27, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

OV needs to be suspended, but I don’t think that hit on Kaleta warrants one. Kaleta saw him coming, and turned away, leaving himself in a vulnerable position. OV should’ve been suspended for the Briere and/or the Heward incident, just because he knew exactly what he was doing. It’ll probably take something really bad for him to get suspended, and then it will probably only be for a couple of games…remember it’s all about the $$$, and when he’s not on the ice, the NHL isn’t profiting from his presence.

by JeffE on Nov 26, 2009 7:46 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

In agreement with you on last Wednesday night’s Kaleta hit by Ovi. I watched the game live, in HD, as well as recorded it via DVR and thus replayed the several angles of the hit. It did not warrant a five minute major nor game misconduct and ejection. The refs deserve some slack on the call given the real time speed of the game. But upon further review, just don’t see how NHL officials could justify any further fines or suspension. Not for this one.

Yes, I am a Caps fan. But I, as well as many of the Cap’s passionate followers on the SB Nation hosted Japer’s Rink Caps blog, can be (and are) the Cap’s harshest critics when warranted. Had the Ovi Kaleta hit occurred prior to the Briere hit referenced in this post, then I would be in full agreement with heavy fines and suspension from several games. The Briere hit was totally uncalled for.

"I play Russian roulette every day - a man's sport - with a bullet called life"

by renhoak on Nov 27, 2009 9:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

ovie is dirty

hey, he’s built a reputation as being over the top in a lot of ways. his cheap shots are over the top. the hits listed are plenty of evidence to support this

by Down by law on Nov 27, 2009 11:40 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

His “reputation” has been built among the haters. It’s not based in reality. His “cheap shots” are vastly overstated. “Plenty of evidence” seems like it warrants more than a one line comment. You can throw it out there all you want but that doesn’t make it true. The guy has been top 10 in hits every year he’s played and yet there are 4 questionable incidents in this post. Let’s parse the record of the rest of the top 10 hitters and see how angelic they are. People that walk the line are occasionally going to cross it. That doesn’t make them dirty players. AO is no different. He should be punished when he crosses it but people like to make a bigger deal than is necessary whenever he’s in the gray area.

If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...

by Fehr and Balanced on Nov 27, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kaleta did his job — he took the best player in hockey off the ice for a period, and all it cost him was a cut on the nose. When you see the full play, you see that he turns his back to the hit (which was still shoulder-on-shoulder) and that’s why he falls face-first into the boards.

It’s cheap stuff, but I understand why the refs called it the way they did, if they didn’t see it clearly. What I find terrible is the way people on the internet keep showing the MSG-Buffalo feed of the hit as though it’s the definitive version of what happened, when you can’t clearly see the play develop in that video. When you look at any other angle, you see that it’s just a guy finishing a check on someone who had the puck a split-second earlier. But like I said before, you have to give credit to Kaleta. By playing it up, he gave his team a much better chance to win a game.

full disclosure – I’m a Caps fan too

Atta dinnin stick a who!

by Gould Old Days on Nov 27, 2009 5:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kaleta did his job — he took the best player in hockey off the ice for a period, and all it cost him was a cut on the nose … But like I said before, you have to give credit to Kaleta. By playing it up, he gave his team a much better chance to win a game.

I second this. For all the immediate after-game hoopla and outcry regarding this hockey “moment” as Ovechkin would like to describe it, I was looking at the immediate impact on Wednesday’s tilt. Credit to Kaleta for taking one for the team to gain an advantage, albeit momentarily.

"wanna go, pretty boy?" -Mr. Carl Racki

by UnleashFurry on Nov 27, 2009 5:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you.

Thank you, again, to the folks from Japer’s Rink. Thank you for one, bringing it hard. I love it. You guys bring the pain every time. Useful, purposeful, fact driven debate. For that, I thank you. Thank you for being classy about it. You are truly some of the classiest fans I have encountered out here on the interwebz. This is a true thank you, not sarcasm. For anyone who wants to find sarcasm in it, well, go away.

http://www.hockeywilderness.com

by BReynolds on Nov 28, 2009 11:30 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Alright, I watched the video

I can now see the opposition’s argument. However, I still do not agree. Let me explain.

If anything, this view makes it more obvious that the hit is boarding, and a hit from behind. Even if Kaleta saw him coming and turned to take the hit from behind, he is still standing three feet from the boards, which makes it boarding. AO should have seen that and backed of the hit, making a play for the puck instead. So, the right call was boarding, not checking from behind.

Next, Kaleta was injured on the play. I disagree that a player being injured on a play automatically makes it a major penalty, but that is the way it is in the NHL. If a guy is bleeding after a high stick, it is four minutes. If a guy is bleeding after being boarded, it becomes a major. I don’t like it, but it is what it is.

Finally, after all of the debates we have had with Wysh over at Puck Daddy, (and Mirtle, and all of the other guys) that suspensions should not be based on the ends, but instead the means, does this not equate with one of those moments? Does this hit not equal a bad hit that did not result in a serious injury, but still is bad enough to warrant a suspension?

If the debate rages every time a guy is half dead on the ice that suspension should not equate to how bad the injury is, why is it a justification here? Kaleta wasn’t hurt that bad (though he is now going to miss at least one game). So what? The hit could have hurt him much worse, if given just a couple of twists or turns in the wrong direction.

Who is to say that Kaleta did not turn to take the hit in a way that saved him from further injury?

That was the justification for the supporters of James Neal. That his victim turned at the last second. Also the claim of the college kid that got steam rolled and ended up in the hospital. I hate to use this vehicle, but what would you do? You see a guy coming in, ready to run you over. Do you turn into him and go backwards into the boards, head first? Or do you turn your back to the steam roller and try to catch yourself with your arms and hands? I can tell what the instinct is. Hands first.

While Wysh tells me I am right that AO gets away with more than most, but wrong that this hit isn’t suspend-able, I disagree. The NHL claims it uses past incidents to judge a players intent and does not use seriousness of injury as a basis. BS. On both accounts. This hit proves it.

http://www.hockeywilderness.com

by BReynolds on Nov 28, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I can definitely agree with someone that sees this as boarding, but I wouldn’t give it more than 4. I’m completely with you that the ending injury should not be the determining factor in the punishment as well. I think it should be based on how dangerous the hit was. The reason I don’t think the AO hit was dangerous enough to warrant 5/game or a suspension is that Kaleta saw it coming and exacerbated it. You are taught to finish checks so that players will move the puck quicker or maybe bail on the play. If Kaleta throws on the breaks when he sees AO maybe he can’t make that pass to the middle of the ice, but he could still dump it up the boards and he avoids most contact. If you say that every time a player puts himself in a vulnerable spot the checkers have to pull up, then what happens? Every time someone is near the boards they’ll set up 2-3 feet away and face the glass. That’s a terribly unsafe position and a perverse result. You want the guys right up against the glass and braced for contact so they can protect themselves.

I don’t think this is like the Neal hit. The CBJ guy was set up facing the glass battling for a puck and didn’t see the hit coming. Nobody turned, Neal saw what he was aiming at and hit him basically square in the numbers. Seeing the hit coming is a huge factor to me because it’s the single most important factor regarding a player being able to defend himself.

Ultimately I still see a guy getting hit on the shoulders by a player he sees coming. It was a dangerous distance from the boards so boarding is warranted, but I maintain that anything more than that is not. A high stick with blood is 4, so that’s what this boarding should have been. A boarding for 5, to me, should be when Dubinsky nails Green from behind or Ruutu nails Tucker from behind. It’s when you put a guy’s face into the glass when he never saw it coming.

If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...

by Fehr and Balanced on Nov 28, 2009 4:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ovie

Let me prface this by saying that I am a Caps fan and STH. I think the Briere hit was a suspendable hit, if only to send the message that this kind of play will not be tolerated. That being said, the Briere spear that happened the next time they played against each other was also suspendable.

The Heward hit was just an issue of timing more than anything else. Heward turned back with his head down as the Ovie train was zeroing in. It wasn’t dirty, just unfortunate, especially cnsidering that they were pretty good friends when Jamie was on the Caps.

The Gonchar knee on knee was a matter of a missed shoulder check. Not suspendable but probably fineable.

The Peverley slew (SLEEEEEEWWWWWWW) foot was pretty bad, especially considering that Artyukin had just been suspended the day before for 2 games for a slew foot. Should have been a game.

Onto Mr. Keleta, who by the way got his own game misconduct for boarding about an hour ago. Issue #1…It wasn’t boarding!!! Roughing, probably… Charging, maybe. Boarding, definately not! Not even close in fact and that is why he won’t be suspended. It wasn’t even dirty or borderline dirty in my opinion. I am a bit biased but 2 minutes was the most this was worth.

by Big_Pushy on Nov 27, 2009 1:52 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The video you posted doesn’t really show the hit. I saw the game on Center Ice, the Caps feed, and you can clearly see Kaleta looking at Ovie coming and just turning at the last minute before Ovie hits him in the shoulder. Kaleta’s head hits the glass and I believe he got a small cut in his nose.

You are saying that Ovie gets immunity because he is a superstar and yet it appears from reading F&B’s post above that he either got fined, penalized or suspended for all of the incidents shown on the videos while other less known players have gotten away with a lot worse this season. What about the game where Ovie was injured after several CBJ jumped him? The Jackets had 7 guys on the ice and yet none of the Blue Jackets got a penalty afterwards and Ovie missed 6 games. It appears to me that it’s actually the other way around, Ovie gets way more penalized than most other guys in the NHL.

I just love how people like you begin a post saying I like so and so but and then proceed to bash the person. That is so hypocritical. If you are going to write a post like this, why not just be honest with yourself and your readers and skip the praises and go straight for the bashing.

Lobbies: Green, Carlson

by CapsFan2020 on Nov 27, 2009 1:58 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

What about the game where Ovie was injured after several CBJ jumped him? The Jackets had 7 guys on the ice and yet none of the Blue Jackets got a penalty afterwards and Ovie missed 6 games.

I don’t think that’s fair. Chimera initiate contact but didn’t do anything worse than what happens a dozen times every game, Ovechkin shoved him back, and a scrum ensued. That was a hockey play.

other less known players have gotten away with a lot worse this season.

Who? When?

I just love how people like you begin a post saying I like so and so but and then proceed to bash the person. That is so hypocritical.

No, it’s not. You can like a politician and dislike their stance on a certain issue, you can like a musician and dislike an album, you can like an actor and hate one of his movies, and you can like a player and dislike some of the plays he’s made.

by David M. Getz on Nov 27, 2009 2:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

A hockey play, seriously? Didn’t the Jackest have 7 guys on the ice during the scrum? 7 againt 5 is hardly a fair fight. Also, if indeed they had more than five shouldn’t they have gotten a penalty?

The Matt Cooke hit on the Ottawa player comes to mind. How was that hit any different that the Ovie hit on Gonchar? If I remember correctly Ovie got a penalty for his and Cooke didn’t.

How can you like a player if you believe he plays dirty/gets away with dirty plays which is what I get from reading this post. It would be like me saying I like Sean Avery while acknowledging he is a dirty player. You either like a dirty player or you don’t, at least that’s how I feel.

Lobbies: Green, Carlson

by CapsFan2020 on Nov 27, 2009 2:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

A hockey play, seriously?

Seriously. Guys coming together; getting shoving matches – that happens every game.

The Matt Cooke hit on the Ottawa player comes to mind. How was that hit any different that the Ovie hit on Gonchar? If I remember correctly Ovie got a penalty for his and Cooke didn’t.

That’s not really fair it being different referees, a different game, and six months apart. Just about any penalty a player commits you can find another play to point at and say, ‘That was at least as bad and it wasn’t a penalty’.

by David M. Getz on Nov 27, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I realize I haven’t been watching hockey that long but I have to disagree that what we saw that day happens in every game. Most of the 7 guys that were on the ice went after Ovie and the other 4 Caps players did what they could (which wasn’t much) to hold them back but again 7 againts 5 is not exactly fair. I still believe there should have been a penalty on the CBJ afterwars for having the two extra guys on the ice.

I mentioned that other less know players have gotten away with a lot worse this season, you asked who, when and I mentioned the hit from Cooke on the Ottawa player as an example.

Lobbies: Green, Carlson

by CapsFan2020 on Nov 27, 2009 5:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Both teams were changing lines, and somebody decided to take a little cheap shot at Ovechkin. It wasn’t dangerous, just a cheap little shove. Ovechkin took issue, and the little scrum started. When Ovechkin shoved someone back, he tweaked a shoulder muscle. Nothing serious, just stupid stuff.

Atta dinnin stick a who!

by Gould Old Days on Nov 27, 2009 5:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But AO wasn’t injured in the scrum. There is definitely a problem with allowing a 7 on 5 scrum but that’s not what resulted in any damage. The reason AO was hurt was because of a fluke fall/contact. Scrums after the whistle do happen every game; maybe not 7 on 5, but the face washing and pushing is standard, and again, that’s not how AO got hurt.

If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...

by Fehr and Balanced on Nov 27, 2009 5:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I actually think Ovi was hurt pushing someone in the scrum. That fall was his first time out after that, and I thought that fall was what made him realize that he really was hurt. Not that we’ll ever know…

Atta dinnin stick a who!

by Gould Old Days on Nov 27, 2009 5:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You may be right. I may have messed up my timeline. I still don’t think CBJ having 7 men on the ice was a factor in the injury. The scrum started with the guys that were out there with AO and in the process of a line change, as you note.

If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...

by Fehr and Balanced on Nov 27, 2009 5:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I Can, and Will

I can like AO and still think these plays are dirty. I like MIke Richards, too, but I hate the way he hits people.

It is absolutely not hypocritical to like a player and call him out for dirty hits. In fact, being an objective observer, and being a fan of that player gives it more credence. I want nothing but the best for AO. He is truly my favorite player in the entire league. If you have an issue with me calling him out while he is my favorite, then I see no reason to debate with you.

http://www.hockeywilderness.com

by BReynolds on Nov 28, 2009 11:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If you can like players like Ovechkin and Richards who you also consider to be dirty players I suppose that’s your right. However, I called you a hypocrite because I think the only reason you added that you liked Ovechkin in your post was to add validity to it. Had you left out the sections where you say you liked Ovechkin, a reader would have just thought you were another Ovechkin hater, but by saying you liked him over and over in your post then readers will think wow this guy is truly a fan of Ovechkin and even he thinks Ovechkin is a dirty player therefore it must be true. In fact, you just said it yourself "… being an objective observer, and being a fan of that player gives it more credence." I also don’t think your post was objective at all as you claim. The post was meant to put Ovechkin in the worst possible light. You said that Ovechkin’s rap sheet is too long to ignore and yet you provide a total of four videos showing two dirty hits from Ovechkin, and I say two because the one on Gonchar and Kaleta I don’t consider dirty hits. If two bad hits in the guy’s entire hockey career, and let’s not forget that he leads his team in hits in almost every game, equals a rap sheet too long to ignore than that just shows that the intent of your post is to smear Ovechkin and not just to call him out. I wonder how many dirty hits Wild players have gotten away with in their careers. Why don’t you write a post about those? Also, I honestly don’t believe you want the best for AO, you want "the NHL to grow up and suspend Ovechkin" because in your opinion he is as dirty as they come.

Lobbies: Green, Carlson

by CapsFan2020 on Nov 28, 2009 6:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dirty as they come

Your words, not mine. And I am a bit tired of you telling me who I can and can’t be a fan of. Or who I am and am not a fan of. Is it not enough for me to tell you I am a fan? Prove I’m not. Prove that just because I call him out that must mean I hate the guy and everything he is. Here is the bottom line. I wish the NHL had more Alexander Ovechkins. I just wish those AOs would not take runs at people, that’s all.

How many dirty hits have Wild players gotten away with? I am not sure. I know Clutterbuck has been called out a handful of times, by me included. Not in a post, ind you, but in comments on this blog and others. Koivu is continuously called a dirty player, though generally only by Canucks fans. Boogaard was suspended five games last season, and I supported him being suspended, though I thought five games for a first offense was a bit steep.

I challenge you right back. You think Wild players have gotten away with as much as AO, prove it. You write a post about it, find the video. I will post it under my name. Hell, make a fan shot post about it. Or, talk to the guys at Japer’s Rink, and I bet they may even post it there.

You have the right to disagree, and I have loved the debate on here with people who have brought facts and not hyperbolic dribble. I am more than willing to debate the issue with you, but I won’t answer any further posts telling me that I am not a fan of Ovechkin’s. You do not know me, you have never met me, and you do not know who I am and am not a fan of. Until you would like to drop that line of reasoning, I see no further reason for you to be invloved in the conversation.

http://www.hockeywilderness.com

by BReynolds on Nov 28, 2009 10:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait a minute, the whole point of your article is to highlight the fact that Ovechkin plays dirty, "has a long rap sheet" and gets away with it. How can you say that calling him dirty are my words, not yours. Go ahead and read what you wrote. In fact, if we ask a few people to read your post and then ask what their opinion of Ovechkin is, I’m willing to bet that they are going to say that Ovechkin is a dirty player who doesn’t get suspended because he’s a star. I don’t think I’m out of line saying that that’s the reaction most people will have after reading your post. Also, have you read all the comments posted here from Wild fans? This one in particularly proves my point.

ovie is dirty

hey, he’s built a reputation as being over the top in a lot of ways. his cheap shots are over the top. the hits listed are plenty of evidence to support this

This is the type of response you get by writing posts like this. You must have known this when you wrote it so what was the point of it all if not to feed Ovechkin’s haters among Wild fans? Also, you wish AO wouldn’t take runs at people; well most true AO fans call those hits.

Ok, if you are not sure how many dirty hits Wild players have gotten away with and you follow that team closely, do you honestly expect me to find this out? Besides you already mentioned above that Clutterbuck and Koivu have gotten away with a few. Since we all agree that OV has gotten away with two doesn’t that make it more than even between the teams as far as dirty hits that went unpunished is concerned? If so, then why do you single out the Ovechkin’s and the Richards’ as the ones who need to be suspended more often simply because they score more goals or are more popular than the Clutterbuck’s and the Koivu’s. Also, had you included videos of some of the dirty hits one of your star Wild player has gotten away with along with Ovechkin’s, it would have added some validity to your post and to your point that star players get away with more dirty hits than less known players but I guess it was just easier to pick on Ovechkin.

You’re right, I don’t know you but I did take the time to read your post. You say you are a fan of Ovechkin but trust me that is not how it comes across in your post despite the fact that you said it over and over and I don’t see why I should drop that line of reasoning. Like it or not, that’s the impression I got from reading your post. If you don’t like what I’m saying or my dribble as you put it, that’s fine. Obviously, I didn’t like your post either and you can always delete my comments but for a person who values facts so much, you didn’t bother adding any to your post because seriously you can’t write a post calling a guy a habitual dirty player, back it up with 4 videos and expect to be taken seriously and in fact, by the responses given here by your fellow Wild fans, it’s quite obvious that they didn’t.

Lobbies: Green, Carlson

by CapsFan2020 on Nov 29, 2009 2:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What is it with you

I am this close (holding fingers just slightly apart) from calling you names.

You must have known this when you wrote it so what was the point of it all if not to feed Ovechkin’s haters among Wild fans?

Again, you don’t get to say things like “You must have known this.” No, I didn’t. Does that make the post any less important? No. You don’t know any Wild fans, so you may want to hold your opinion of them for someone else. Everyone I know here in MN is a fan of AO’s, and you don’t get to determine if we are or are not. The point of the post, despite your inability to figure it out using the other comments on it, was to continue the long standing debate about whether or not the NHL treats superstars differently than other players. You focused in on calling me names and bashing me for being an AO hater.

Wait a minute, the whole point of your article is to highlight the fact that Ovechkin plays dirty, “has a long rap sheet” and gets away with it. How can you say that calling him dirty are my words, not yours. Go ahead and read what you wrote. In fact, if we ask a few people to read your post and then ask what their opinion of Ovechkin is, I’m willing to bet that they are going to say that Ovechkin is a dirty player who doesn’t get suspended because he’s a star.

I never, not once, used the words dirty player. It is the difference between telling your kids they are stupid and telling them that what they did was stupid. It is an important difference, and one you seem to fail to grasp. What AO did was hit someone, standing three feet from the boards and driving that player face first into the boards. That’s dirty. Let me say that again. The HIT is dirty. AO is not, in my opinion (if I am entitled to it), a dirty player. NOT a dirty player. Twist my words however you wish, but I do not believe he is. His rap sheet is on it’s way, however, and that is when you suspend a player. Before he thinks it is OK.

Ok, if you are not sure how many dirty hits Wild players have gotten away with and you follow that team closely, do you honestly expect me to find this out?

Yes, I do. It’s called research, and it is what people do before launching an attack they cannot back.

Since we all agree that OV has gotten away with two doesn’t that make it more than even between the teams as far as dirty hits that went unpunished is concerned?

No. Because you can’t prove they got away with anything. I said, in my opinion, Koivu MAY have gotten away with a few, and Clutterbuck MAY have gotten away with a few. Nothing to this degree, or there would certainly be concern here in MN. I was dumbfounded when Belanger did not get suspended for slamming Chimera into the boards in the pre-season. But I, and many Wild fans expressed shock with that. I remember even saying, “Belanger isn’t a star, how does he get away with that?” You can’t even admit that AO should have been suspended for anything, ever.

If so, then why do you single out the Ovechkin’s and the Richards’ as the ones who need to be suspended more often simply because they score more goals or are more popular than the Clutterbuck’s and the Koivu’s.

Again, putting words in my mouth. “simply because they score more goals or are more popular” is your opinion, not mine. I say they get away with it because they are susperstars with marketing power. Nothing to do with how many goals they score. And you set yourself up for an obvious rebuttal here. I targeted these two players because they deserve it.

Also, had you included videos of some of the dirty hits one of your star Wild player has gotten away with along with Ovechkin’s, it would have added some validity to your post and to your point that star players get away with more dirty hits than less known players but I guess it was just easier to pick on Ovechkin.

Name the “star” player on the Wild. Go ahead. I’ll wait. That’s right. They don’t have any. Ovechkin is a super star. The Wild don’t have one of those. Besides, this is not a matter of Wild vs Ovechkin. You have, again, wandered far from the path. Ovechkin has (at least) these instances in his past. What would it take for him to be suspended? If he makes the hit Kaleta put on Ross, does Ovechkin get suspended? Ask those same people you were going to ask to determine the tone of my post, and they will all scoff at you and chuckle. No one thinks AO is ever going to be suspended. Ever.

You think it is easy to pick on Ovechkin? Have you seen the replies from crackpot fans on this post? Oh wait. Never mind.

And, the post has plenty of validity to it, or you wouldn’t be so worked up about it.

You’re right, I don’t know you but I did take the time to read your post. You say you are a fan of Ovechkin but trust me that is not how it comes across in your post despite the fact that you said it over and over and I don’t see why I should drop that line of reasoning. Like it or not, that’s the impression I got from reading your post. If you don’t like what I’m saying or my dribble as you put it, that’s fine. Obviously, I didn’t like your post either and you can always delete my comments but for a person who values facts so much, you didn’t bother adding any to your post because seriously you can’t write a post calling a guy a habitual dirty player, back it up with 4 videos and expect to be taken seriously and in fact, by the responses given here by your fellow Wild fans, it’s quite obvious that they didn’t.

This may be my favorite comment of all time, so let’s take a moment with this one.

First, you have read one post of mine. One. And you claim to know how I think and who I am and am not a fan of. You claim to know that Wild fans hate Ovechkin, despite having no evidence of that claim. You call me a liar without any basis to do so. But hey, you read one post, so you are the expert.

Next, despite your interpretation of this ONE post, I am a fan of Ovechkin’s. What would you like me to do to prove it?

I don’t rightly care if you liked my post or not. It got your all riled up, so it must have done something for you, which is all the better for me. Well done.

As for deleting your comments, I don’t do that. There is no reason to do so. Why would you even suggest I do that? Do you not want to be part of the conversation, or do you feel I need to be the one to censor your thoughts for you? Because that’s not my job.

I never called him a habitually dirty player, and if you can find a quote where I do, I will eat crow right here for everyone.

I was taken quite seriously with this post. It was linked to by Wysh over at Puck Daddy, as wa the follow-up post, and has had quite the debate with Caps fans and fans around the league, including my friends over at Japer’s Rink (who, you know, brought actual facts to the debate). The only one not being taken seriously (by anyone but me) is you.

The Wild fans that visit here know me. They know what to expect from me, and I am fairly certain they at least respect my opinion. Though, you would have to ask them that, as I do not speak for them.

Can’t wait for the next mind numbingly silly reply.

-Buddha

http://www.hockeywilderness.com

by BReynolds on Nov 30, 2009 11:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Alright? So, now we have seen that. Anyone ever seen anything comparable? I have. Several times. Almost everyone of them resulted in a suspension, too.

For example…?

by David M. Getz on Nov 27, 2009 2:13 PM CST reply actions   2 recs

Players from all around the league at all skill levels routinely get away with worse hits around the league. Kozlov had a much more vicious hit from behind on Gomez earlier in the season and he didn’t get suspended, but at the same time Tuomo Ruutu got suspended for a bad hit from behind on Tucker. Plus, every other game it seems there is a bad hit from behind that doesn’t result in injury or blood and thus goes completely unnoticed.

This is the problem with NHL supplementary discipline, it’s completely arbitrary. It’s easy to claim star power is the reason why guys like Richards and AO don’t get suspended, but in reality a system of punishment based on fan appeal would be far more predictable than the current mess coming out of the NHL offices.

Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst

by Killer_Carlson on Nov 27, 2009 4:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Callahan on Green

One of the most dangerous hits I’ve seen in recent memory, but no punishment. If Green got hurt surely there would have been, but there wasn’t so the NHL ignored it. (True, it also occurred during the lawless NHL playoffs. It seemed like if you weren’t a 4th line player anything went last year. That’s another problem in itself but not entirely related to star power, per se.)

If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...

by Fehr and Balanced on Nov 27, 2009 5:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought it was Dubinsky, but yeah, that was forefront in my mind when thinking about hits from behind going unpunished. Wanted to stick to hits from this season though. You want to bring last playoffs you also have Perry getting away with a blatant elbow, and Brown also getting away with the exact same hit that got Brashear suspended for 5 games. But as you said the playoffs are a different beast, and star power is only one of the arbitrary criteria used by Colin Campbell to decide to suspend (or not suspend) a player.

Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst

by Killer_Carlson on Nov 27, 2009 9:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah it was Dubinsky. But you’ll notice who was right there coming to the rescue…

If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...

by Fehr and Balanced on Nov 27, 2009 10:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Am I the only one still waiting besides DMG?
Anyone ever seen anything comparable? I have. Several times. Almost everyone of them resulted in a suspension, too.

Seems to me this is a blanket statement. But I’ll throw in the the benefit of doubt. Maybe I should go do some homework and try finding anything comparable … Curious. Is there a video compilation of hits (much like the one posted by BReynolds) that are seemingly dirty/clean on SB Nation’s Hockey blog-o-sphere somewhere?

"wanna go, pretty boy?" -Mr. Carl Racki

by UnleashFurry on Nov 27, 2009 5:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Go to youtube and type in...

and combination of “hit” and “suspension.” Tons of examples. To narrow it down, include “checking from behind” or “borading.”

http://www.hockeywilderness.com

by BReynolds on Nov 28, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No offense

Your argument, you go to you tube and post examples. Be sure to include analysis of each argument so that you won’t get asked to later.

by snowburnt on Nov 29, 2009 6:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Are your fingers broken?

Here is alink for you, OK? Alright. ’Nuff said.

Here’s Ryan Hollweg on Pietrangelo.

Same type of hit, other side of the ice. Suspended three games.

Here’s Tuomo Rutuu’s hit on Darcy Tucker that earned him a suspension earlier this year.

There is more over there at Youtube, but I have better things to do than provide you with links to every hit ever earning a suspension in the NHL. DO your homeowrk yourself. I have already proven I can do mine.

http://www.hockeywilderness.com

by BReynolds on Nov 30, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hollweg was a serious repeat offender. He had been suspended twice for hits from behind and that hit on Pietrangelo was like one or two games after returning from his second suspension. Pietrangelo also didn’t see it coming and it was squarely from behind.

Rutuu also hit Tucker squarely from behind when Tucker never had a chance to defend himself.

Both are different from the AO hit.

If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...

by Fehr and Balanced on Nov 30, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Selection bias, that won’t get you examples of the many similar (or worse) hits from behind that don’t end in suspension.

Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst

by Killer_Carlson on Nov 29, 2009 7:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I have no idea what you are even trying to tell me here.

http://www.hockeywilderness.com

by BReynolds on Nov 30, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What he means is that you only get the bad hits that are sensationalized. Hits like this go on all the time without the fanfare and don’t make YouTube or garner suspensions. The list of YouTube hits is not exhaustive, nor is it an accurate indicator of what kind of hits are clean, dirty, punished, or not. Looking in YouTube is only going to find you the kinds of hits you want to compare to the AO hits because those are the ones that get attention. It’s not going to find you hundreds of other hits that are almost exactly the same and didn’t get punished. That’s what I think he meant by selection bias.

If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...

by Fehr and Balanced on Nov 30, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Which is fair, but it is what I mentioned in the original post, and which they asked for. Similar hits that resulted in suspension.

http://www.hockeywilderness.com

by BReynolds on Nov 30, 2009 2:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So the issue seems to be that the no suspension argument says that Kaleta saw him coming and purposefully turned toward the boards. That is assuming an awful lot on a play that takes a split second from beginning to end. Not I never said AO intended to hurt Kaleta, but I doubt even Kaleta is dumb enough to turn himself into the boards on purpose.

http://www.hockeywilderness.com

by BReynolds on Nov 30, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If you mean that my combination of search terms won’t magically yield hits that look exactly like this one, you are correct. You will need to spend a little bit of time and watch a few before you find them that are similar. Again, it’s called research. Try it.

http://www.hockeywilderness.com

by BReynolds on Nov 30, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

By the way, I find this whole statement highly prejudicial. If you find that to be the reasons the NHL does not suspend Ovie more often, then there is something really wrong with you logic.

"He was recently signed by one of the biggest marketing groups in the world, the main reason being that he is marketable. He scores goals, he has a funny personality and goofy face."

Lobbies: Green, Carlson

by CapsFan2020 on Nov 27, 2009 5:57 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I am not sure which statement you find prejudicial. The line about him being marketable?

http://www.hockeywilderness.com

by BReynolds on Nov 28, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Eventually he will get his

It’s only a matter of time before one of the enforcers on another team will have enough of Alex and he will get his clock cleaned. It won’t be a little scrap, it will be a situation where someone really is trying to end his career and then he wioll find out that he isn’t God………Keep an eye on him Boogeyman and if he gets out of hand again then reset his jaw with a haymaker.

by Sixmark on Nov 28, 2009 6:33 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

What an enlightened position. When was the last time you saw any goon fight a skill guy? Why do you think the Boogeyman is going to be able to fight AO? You’re either talking about a Bertuzzi on Moore incident or something outside the bounds of reality. Maybe someone cheap shots AO, but AO usually sees those coming, and unlike that punk Kaleta, doesn’t bitch out from the hit.

If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...

by Fehr and Balanced on Nov 28, 2009 11:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

This was uncalled for. No one should be calling for someone to run AO, or anyone else for that matter.

Bad form.

http://www.hockeywilderness.com

by BReynolds on Nov 30, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

For anyone just joining the conversation...

or coming back to continue the debate… here is some video of the hit Kaleta was just suspended for. How is that worse?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_pnuvSSo8o

http://www.hockeywilderness.com

by BReynolds on Nov 28, 2009 10:50 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

1) Kaleta hit Ross right between the numbers. Right in the back. Ovechkin on Kaleta point of contact is shoulder-to-shoulder. Look at 1:16 on the Kaleta-Ross hit.

2) Kaleta leaps before hitting Ross. He leaves his skates. For no good hockey reason at all. Ovechkin came in square, skates on the ice. Watch 0:07 on the Kaleta-Ross hit.

3) Kaleta hit Ross in the head. Watch 1:25 of Kaleta-Ross. Ovechkin did not hit Kaleata in the head. That hit is all body.

4) Most importantly — Kaleta saw Ovechkin coming. At 0:05 of the video that is embedded in the original post above (which is not the best view of Ovechkin-on-Kaleta) you clearly see Kaleta look up-ice. He knows he’s about to get hit. He chooses to turn his back to the hitter. Ross knew someone was behind him, which is why he got rid of the puck so fast, but he didn’t know where Kaleta was or how hard he was coming. Ross had no chance to prepare for impact because he didn’t know where the impact would be.

Atta dinnin stick a who!

by Gould Old Days on Nov 29, 2009 10:04 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Ross also had another forechecker to contend with right in front of him, and Kaleta made a fancy pants pass through his legs that a player of his caliber has no business making. Ever wonder why you don’t see talented players get boarded like that when they see it coming? It’s because they aren’t idiots and they know how to defend themselves.

If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...

by Fehr and Balanced on Nov 29, 2009 12:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Later comer to this party, but I see much of the groundwork has already been laid. Honestly I didn’t think Kaleta’s hit deserved 2 games like he got mainly because it deals with the exact same issue you see in the Ovechkin hit on him. The guy with the puck seeing a guy coming at him and either deliberately or stupidly turning himself towards the boards and away from the hit. I do believe Kaleta did this intentionally to draw a penalty on Ovechkin and that’s kudos to him for making a “thinking” play like that to take one for the team in a 1-0 game in which no penalties had been called yet. There’s also other guys (Heward comes to mind) who admit they weren’t being smart about their positioning knowing a hit was coming and put THEMSELVES in that position. This is the problem with suspending the guys who are delivering these hits in that the intent is NOT to hit from behind face first into the boards. Essentially dealing out suspensions just rewards that kind of dangerous play by guys holding the puck anywhere near the boards.

I do think Kaleta’s hit was worse than Ovechkin’s in that he did hit Ross right dead square in the middle of his back as Gould Old Days already stated, whereas Ovechkin’s hit on him was clearly shoulder to shoulder if you are actually looking at the good angles of the hit.

I don’t think any Caps fan who is being objective doesn’t think the Ovechkin hit doesn’t deserve 2 minutes or 4 minutes (there was a trickle of blood) for boarding, but to toss him from the game and call for a suspension for that hit is ridiculous, unless you are buying in to the over-exaggerated “headhunter” rep that gets screamed out of Buffalo, Pittsburgh, and Philly. The Buffalo guys have a case because the hit on Briere from 06 was definitely a bad hit and I would have had zero issue with a suspension on that. But as bad as we all complain about “make up” penalty calls during games how much worse would it be to have “make up” justice in the form of suspensions that CC just doles out at random for whatever possible past offenses didn’t get the “right treatment”.

You can’t reward the practice of turning away from the hit you see coming because it just encourages more players to put themselves in positions that will see a rise in number of hits like this and injuries that come along with it.

by Davethecapsfan on Nov 29, 2009 7:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

On a related note

How many times have players taken boarding call against Ovechkin? Russian Machine doesn’t turn away from hits, he hits back.

Your favorite meme is dead

by Edanger6 on Nov 29, 2009 9:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Tired of that...

Why would he not turn away from the hit? Ross turns away from the hit from Kaleta, too. The juniors kid turned away from the hit. Everyone turns away from being hit. It’s instinct. What should he have done, as I asked earlier? Should he have turned and faced AO, allowing for the back of his head to slam into the glass? Or would the normal instinct be to turn and try to put your arms out to brace you against the fall?

http://www.hockeywilderness.com

by BReynolds on Nov 30, 2009 11:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not everyone turns away from the hit. Look at the highlight of AO against MON (possibly his most famous game ever) and you’ll see a MON player take a run at AO in the neutral zone. Did AO turn his back or puss out? No. He skated at the hitter and challenged him with his own shoulder. He got a broken nose for his efforts as well. There aren’t simply two options as you state. You seem to think he either goes head first into the boards either forward or backwards, when that’s not true.

He could have stopped and chipped the puck up the boards. No dangerous hit.

He could have gotten tight to the boards and allowed the boards to take the impact just like almost every other NHL player would. No dangerous hit.

He could have skated at AO and tried to return the favor. Also a common NHL play and not a dangerous hit.

I ask again, you see NHL players skate up the boards like that all the time, but the hits don’t turn out like that. It’s not because every other NHL player won’t throw that hit, it’s because every NHL player with more skill and smarts than Kaleta (i.e. 99.99% of them) knows how to handle that play.

Also, I’m pretty sure everyone who played full-contact hockey ever knows that you don’t try to break a fall against the boards or ice with your arms. That’s asking for a serious injury. Same reason NFL players don’t try to break their falls with their arms. I actually had a teammate try to break his fall against the boards by putting his arm out and he broke both arms in his forearm. Gruesome. After the play basically everyone on my team, instead of crying about a dirty hit, said that he should have been tighter to the boards and not tried to catch himself. If you’ve (not you specifically, anyone in general) played hockey you know that there is a responsibility to protect yourself, and Kaleta completely failed.

If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...

by Fehr and Balanced on Nov 30, 2009 12:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed. It is taught to stay up tight to the boards, but in this situation, Kaleta wasn’t against the boards. It is the whole reason the boarding penalty exists. Players find themselves in that magical gray zone where they are too far to absorb the hit, but not far enough away to avoid the boards.

I have taken a couple snowmobile driving courses. They all teach me not to stick my leg out if the sled starts to roll. Ever tried to not stick your leg out? One day, I’m going to have my leg broken, but it is what it is. I don’t even think about it, my leg just goes out. I immediately realize I am being stupid, but it happens anyway.

It could be any play in hockey. A guy turns the wrong way and gets hit funny. I feel the hitter has the bulk of the responsibility to not make the hit. Just like if I am driving, I have the bulk of the responsibility not to run into other cars. Sure, there is some shared responsibility to the other drivers to avoid me if I am being reckless, but the bulk falls to me.

I come down here: he didn’t need to hit him. There were other plays to make. And if Kaleta is known world wide as a cheap player (and I agree), AO needs to know that, be aware of who is on the ice, and not put himself in that position. Kind of like if Jarkko Rutuu is on the ice, I try to avoid putting my hand near his mouth. (That was an attempt at humor… come on… chuckle…) Players need to know when Phaneuf is on the ice and avoid skating toward him in open ice. AO needs to be aware he about to hit a dirty player and make a different choice.

http://www.hockeywilderness.com

by BReynolds on Nov 30, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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