Gaborik is More Important than Ovechkin or Crosby?

by BReynolds on Feb 25, 2009 8:04 PM CST Comment 13 comments

Generally I don't have much of an issue with the beat writers here in Minnesota. Michael Russo is just short of being a hockey god, and Tom Powers generally doesn't suck. So I was surprised to see this story from Powers today. In it, he lays out the details of what might have been had Gaborik been healthy all season, and the Wild had the finisher everyone desperately wants to believe Gaborik is.

He sites the oft used stat:

Over the past 27 games in which Gaborik has scored a goal, the Wild are 23-0-4. That goes back to last season.

I am not a fact checker, so I am going to assume this is true. I cannot dispute this fact, but Gaborik doesn't score a goal in every game, so the Wild were not about to go undefeated, right? I would also have to assume that even given that stat, that the Wild would eventually lose a game when Gaborik scored.

I often counter the stats such as these with this fact: Gaborik had eight game winning goals last season. Not a bad number, but he did not win those 23 games by himself. Telling me that the Wild went 23-0-4 when Gaborik scored means little to me.

Then comes the part of the article that boggles my mind:

Considering that Gaborik has more of an impact on the Wild than Sidney Crosby has on the Penguins. He has at least as much of an impact on the Wild as Alex Ovechkin has on the Capitals. I'm not saying he's a better player. He's just more important to his team.

Um... what? Gaborik is more important to the Wild than Ovechkin is to the Caps or Crosby is to the Pens. I don't even know how to answer that wihtout justifying one of the most absurd things I have ever read.

Gaborik is NOT Ovechkin, and he is NOT Crosby. He never will be, and to suggest that he in any way, shape, or form compares on any level to these two true superstars in insulting to both the readers of the Pioneer Press and to those two hockey players. Even saying that you don't think Gaborik is a better player doesn't help.

Without Alexander Ovechkin, the Caps would be nothing, nowhere. He is the type of player that makes the entire team better. Look at the struggles Nicklas Backstrom had while Ovechkin was gone for a handful of games at the beginning of the season. Ovechkin is a one man game winner.

Without Crosby, the Pens still have Malkin. However, Crosby is the captain of the team, and again, raises the level of play of his entire team. The only reason Crosby can't put up 200 points in a season is because no one can keep up with him. I cannot imagine the Pens are anywhere near as good without Crosby.

I figure if he [Gaborik] were healthy he'd have 30 by now. Can you imagine what 30 more goals would do for the Wild?

Most of Minnesota's games are white-knuckle, one-goal affairs. [Bob] Kurtz and I figured those 30 goals would be worth 14 or 15 points in the standings.

14 or 15 points off of 30 goals from one guy? Nah. Those 30 goals are not all the in-addtion-to style that this quote assumes. Not all of these goals would have added to the total. You have to assume that some of these goals would have been the instead-of type. In other words, Gaborik would have scored "instead of" Bouchard, or Nolan, or whomever.

Yes, most of the Wild's goals are white-knucle games, but they were last year, too. It is a team effort, and Gaborik did not win the division by himself.

Powers then adds this at the end of the article:

One injury has thrown the Wild back in with the pack, where every game is life and death and every goal is precious in today's NHL. As Lemaire says, as long as both teams decide to play hard and as long as both goaltenders play well, all games will be ultra tight.

Again, I respectfully disagree. It is not just the injury to Gaborik that has thrown them into the pack. How about the loss of Rolston and Demitra? While the Hockey ops blog at the all-star break showed that those two players this year are not what they were last year, who is to say they wouldn't have been if they still played for the Wild? I do not miss Demo in the least, but I do miss his offense.

The entire article assumes that Gaborik is a game changer. He is not. Not by any definition of the term or stretch of the imagination. Is he good? Sure he is, but he is not Ovechkin, and he is not Crosby. In a post earlier in the season, we debated how many players are out there that we would rather give $6 million per year to before ponying it up to Gaborik. The list was extensive.

I am not about to say this team would not be better with Gaborik than it is now, but the other teams in the Northwest, and the Western Conference, would have something to say about those extra 14 to 15 points going to the Wild. I will say that the team is only marginally better with Gaborik than without.

No one in their right mind would say they would rather have someone other than Crosby or Ovechkin on their team. For any price.

Tell me I'm wrong.

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Hmm

Game changer? Maybe. However, he’s not typically the type of guy who creates his own offense as much as he is the type of guy who is an actual finisher with an incredible first few steps, draws penalties and makes other players better by the defense adjusting to him.

I can say with some comfort that he would be close to 30 goals right now, many would be instead of someone else, but the argument can be made that he would have a net improvement of 15-20 GF. These 15-20 GF, not to mention the additional power play opportunities, would likely add 8-12 points and put them solidly in the run for the division title.

The guy scores. There’s no doubt about that, but would he lead to goals at the other end of the ice? Probably. Would the team be better with him? Almost definitely. Is his injury the #1 reason this team isn’t in the Northwest division lead? Hell no.

This team isn’t in the Northwest division lead because of the fact that one guy has such an impact on the team. If Risebrough would do a better job in acquiring and drafting talent, and Lemaire didn’t take a Tom Kelly-like approach to young guys and put them in the doghouse for typical young player mistakes, they’d be on more solid footing.

Now, is he as valuable to the team as Crosby is to the Pens or Ovechkin is to the Capitals? Man, that’s a tough call. If Crosby goes down, the Pens still have Malkin, Sykora, Satan and Staal. They have better guys left over than the Wild do.

If AO goes down, the Caps have Semin, Backstrom and Mike Green. All of whom are better than the guys the Wild have left.

The argument can be made that they’re better off than the Wild without Gaborik, it’s a tough one to make, but all it says is that Doug Risebrough and Tom Lynn have screwed up this organization much more than most people think.

by nathaneide on Feb 25, 2009 10:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Not even close

  FIrst off to say that say that Mary-Anne, has even close to the impact on this team as Alex-O has on the caps is rediculous. Ovechkin is a superimpact player, have you watched many Caps games? Gabby does draw attention and he deserves extra attention. He is a very good player, but Ovechkin demands concentration from every opposing player on the ice. Ovechkin uses that and is able to make playmaker passes and not to mention he is also a physical force. Combine Gaborik, PMB and Clutterbuck and you get one Alex Ovechkin. Not even close.
          Comparing to Crosby is a little more digestable. But the article only considers the positives of having Gabby back. There could be negatives to having him playing too. Forst the obvious distractions with contract talk and trade talk, blah, blah, blah, but that can have a negative effect on a team. second if Gabby is here, it is his team, that may keep the current leaders in my eyes, Koivu and Owen Nolan from taking the reins and getting this team to over achieve.
         But even if you don’t buy any of this, it still stands that this team has learned not to depend on the guy, because he is luxury to have around, because you cannot count on him being there all the time and an expensive luxury at that for forty five games a year out of him.

by W1ldfan on Feb 26, 2009 10:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Gabby not a game changer.....ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

Gaborik is one of the top 5 players in the game. And you cannot compare AO and Crosby to him. If he was surrounded by some actual skilled players he would score 100 goals a season. Crosby is a PMB with actual talent around him, an assist man at best. Get your shit straight, we would have won the division this year if we had Gabby the whole year. If you could comprehend statistics you would know that he doesnt take anyone elses goals, he opens the ice up and everyone scores way more because of him. Thats how much he means to this team, like AO he is the team. Besides AO, he is the most dangerous player in the nhl. His wristshot is the BEST in the game. Lets see AO score 5 goals in a game or anyone for that matter, thats what i thought gabby bashers.

by gaborik on Feb 27, 2009 3:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Comprehension

Comprehension of statistics is not the issue here. I understand the stats, likely better than you do. You use no stats in your comment. Give me the stats if they are so important to you. Statistics cannot show if he takes other people’s goals, or if he doesn’t. If you have stats that show otherwise, throw them up, I would love to see them.

Crosby is PMB with talent around him? That right there ruined all of your creditability, but let’s continue, just for kicks.

Gaborik held out at least once for a payday, disappeared in the playoffs, missed hundreds of games due to injury. Yep, that’s a game changer right there.

Gaborik scored five goals, big deal. What has he done since? Nothing. Here is a list of players, just since 1981 that have scored five goals in a game: John Tonelli, Grant Mulvey, Willy Lidstrom, Bengt-Ake Gustafsson, Pat Hughes… yes there are the Wayne Gretzky’s of the group too, but just because you score five goals does not make you a game changer, or a super star. How many of those players listed above had you heard of before reading this?

Top five in the game? Who are your top five? Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, Iginla, Hossa, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Thorton, Getzlaf, Kovalchuk… just to name a handful off the top of my head that are head and shoulders above anything Gaborik has done or will ever do. That’s without mentioning Goalies of D-men that are better than Gaborik.

Justify the comment that his wrist shot is the best in the game. With the addition of Cammalleri in Calgary, and the play of Kipper this season, the Wild had little or no chance from the start.

Anyways… back to the point. You throw things out like comprehension of statistics, yet you bring none to the table. All you do is throw a few cuss words out and mix in your opinion with little or no justification of that opinion. While it is great that you are obviously a fan of Gaborik, that does not automatically make him the second most dangerous player in the NHL.

If you want to debate it, I’m ready, but you better bring it stronger than this first comment, or it just isn’t worth it.

-Buddha

The team has done just fine without him, and will continue to do just fine without him.

The only way to avoid failure, is to learn from it.

by BReynolds on Feb 27, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It will only continue to do just fine without him if there's a change

He needs to be replaced by two or three guys who are going to produce in the 25-30 goals per year range who are going to be $3-4M/year and will be around for a few years. Unfortunately, I don’t trust Doug Risebrough to find those guys and bring them in.

He’s going to find Tony Batista’s of the hockey world or maybe some Nick Punto/Stephane Veilleux types.

I’m so done with Risebrough until he proves otherwise.

by nathaneide on Feb 27, 2009 5:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Of course, if it were me, Riser would be gone after the season. Along with Jacques (who likely retires).

Need a new GM to usher in a new way of doing things. Finding the bit player, the role player is not what they need. I am a big fan of the idea of Cammalleri coming over on July 1, but I don’t see the right offer being put on the table.

Would be really nice to have someone who is a finisher, but they just aren’t a dime a dozen… going to take a big, bold move to get one, and that just is not our beloved Doug.

The only way to avoid failure, is to learn from it.

by BReynolds on Feb 27, 2009 6:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Michael Russo Reports That

“Doug Risebrough and Flames GM Darryl Sutter watched the Flames’ skate together this morning. I’m hearing Dion Phaneuf for Marian Gaborik is imminent.”

HMMMM…Interesting…I’d Take it in a Heartbeat.

by Tony_O on Feb 27, 2009 5:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Me thinks

that was sarcasm…

No way they cough up Dion for Gaby…

The only way to avoid failure, is to learn from it.

by BReynolds on Feb 27, 2009 5:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Never Know Me boy....

You never Know…keep your fingers crossed.

by Tony_O on Feb 27, 2009 6:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

LACK OF COMPREHENSION

All the evidence is in Toms piece which is 100 percent correct much to your dismay. And actually gaborik is in the #4 in active career PPG so yes that makes him top 5 in the NHL and yes that means SUPERSTAR. im sorry Buddha. The team is not doing fine without him, we wont make the playoffs without him with the players we have. Theres no statistic on taking goals away but look at the record with and without him in the lineup, its complete opposites. Which means hes adding goals and distributing goals because he doesnt score every goal. Why is our ppg so low without him, i wonder why hmmmm. Im sick of gaborik bashers who think they can just bash this guy when YOU DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT HE MEANS TO THIS TEAM. Tell me to look up statistical date? Its common sense, HES ONE OF THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE GAME and this time i provided you with your stupid data. Oh yeah and PMB had 60 assists for a shitty team, he would have 80-100 per on a good team. Crosby is downhill you wonder why huh same reason PMB is down this year too, nobody to pass too. Yeah assist man crosby hello. You dont even have to agree with their the same player, because you know nothing and thats why you do these things. If gabby was full bore the whole season, we win the northwest division just like last year. AND ITS COMMON SENSE GABBYS WRISTSHOT IS THE BEST IN THE GAME, WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN? Gaborik is a game changer and everyone knows this. Wake up, you know absolutely nothing about hockey! Dont bs people who know way more about hockey than you, like Tom and myself. You think your so smart with your little analysis on my comment. tell me how long did it take you to look up all that stuff huh? Your just another one of those nerds who wishes he played the game and bashes on guys just because they get hurt all the time and cant play, its not their fault. And you try to cap on die hard wild fans and their players. You are an absolute disgrace as a wild fan. Do everyone a favor and never post again.

by gaborik on Feb 28, 2009 4:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Oh, where to start?

First off, you still have yet to post any stats. You say he is #4 in active career PPG. How many is that? Who ranks above him? Give me some names of who ranks below him. Are they superstars?

Wake up, you know absolutely nothing about hockey! Dont bs people who know way more about hockey than you, like Tom and myself.

Like Tom and yourself? You can’t even use proper grammar let alone convince me you know as much about hockey as I do, let alone Powers. Just because you put something in caps does not make it true.

look at the record with and without him in the lineup, its complete opposites.

The record is not exact opposites when he is not in the line up, or they would be quite a ways outside the playoff race, and would be very much sub .500. And, of course, you provide no stats to back up your claim here.

AND ITS COMMON SENSE GABBYS WRISTSHOT IS THE BEST IN THE GAME, WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN? … Its common sense, HES ONE OF THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE GAME

It is not common sense that Gaborik is a superstar, nor is it common sense that his wrist shot is one of the best in the game. Common sense needs no support, it is just accepted as true, such as “George Washington is the first president of the USA.” Gaborik is a superstar needs support, and Gaborik has the best wrist shot in the game needs support.

You think your so smart with your little analysis on my comment. tell me how long did it take you to look up all that stuff huh? Your just another one of those nerds who wishes he played the game…

It took about three seconds to look up that information. It’s called Google, you may want to look it up. As for wishing I played the game, let me know when and where you do, and we can see who is better. As for being a nerd, that’s fine, that is your opinion, and you are so entitled. However, calling me names does not help your argument, but instead makes you appear childish and incapable of arguing in an adult manner.

…bashes on guys just because they get hurt all the time and cant play, its not their fault. And you try to cap on die hard wild fans and their players. You are an absolute disgrace as a wild fan.

They get hurt all the time, and it isn’t their fault? Correct, it isn’t their fault, but it makes the claim of being a superstar hard to justify. I never said it was Gaborik’s fault he is injury prone. I have wondered why someone who is so prone to injury would be playing games that stress that injury more so than need be. I also have never “capped” on die hard fans, as a matter of fact, I have never said anything about the fans. And how do you even know I am a Wild fan to begin with? Do we know each other? Have you asked me if I am or not? I am by the way, but assuming does your argument seem silly.

Wake up, you know absolutely nothing about hockey!

I know enough about the game to pick apart any and every argument you have thrown out so far. I also know enough about the game to not only be given the honor of writing for this website, but also to be a credentialed member of the press covering the Wild.

Do everyone a favor and never post again.

Until that decision is made by people here at the Wilderness, I think I will go ahead and continue to post. Thank you for the suggestion though.

Just a few pointers for the next time you decide to post:

1. Contractions such as “don’t” or “I’m” use apostrophes in order to show that letters were eliminated. It’s an extra keystroke, make the effort.
2. There is a big difference between “their,” there," and “they’re .”
3. When switching topics, such as when you go into the tirade about Crosby, you may want to start a new paragraph.
4. The phrase “its complete opposites” is wrong on so many levels, I don;t even know where to start.

Contact your high school English teacher, you need a remedial course. When you are ready to have a civilized discussion, in which you do not resort to name calling and blind assumption, let me know. I’m ready and waiting.

The only way to avoid failure, is to learn from it.

by BReynolds on Feb 28, 2009 11:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Powers article

Powers only offers one concrete stat in the entire article:

Over the past 27 games in which Gaborik has scored a goal, the Wild are 23-0-4. That goes back to last season.

Everything else in the article is speculation, and again, Gaborik did not win those 23 games by himself.

The only way to avoid failure, is to learn from it.

by BReynolds on Mar 1, 2009 12:02 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

27 games.

That’s a streak is all ok. You want a superstar, here’s a stat for ya. In his career Backstrom is PERFECT in every game, which he did not allow any goals in regulation, overtime or shootout. Hell, by that statistic I would say Backstrom is a much bigger Superstar than Gaborik and Gabby isn’t even the most important player on the team. Ya know what else, I didn’t even have to Google that stat.

by W1ldfan on Mar 2, 2009 11:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs