Boogaard: A Spin on the Wheel of Justice
Derek Boogaard inflicted a knee-to-knee hit on Ryan Jones on Friday night. On Saturday, Colin Campbell spun the NHL Wheel of Justice, and it came up two games. Our very unscientific poll came up with that result being what people felt he should get. Side note: I would like to thank all of those who voted after the suspension was handed down. You get no points or prizes for being right. I wanted your opinion, not the right answer.
So. Two games. How do feel about this? I am 100% confident that my opinion is not going to be a popular one. As one reader once asked, "Is it possible to troll your own blog?" I will share my opinion after the jump. Please, be gentle. Let's take our ride on the wheel of justice.
First, here is the video again:
Now. I have read comments on the last post that feel that five games would have been excessive, unfair, not the right way to go. I agree with the last two. You see, I am of a torn mind. I like Derek Boogaard. I like that he is a member of the team, and I hope the re-sign him, just so long as he doesn't expect a raise. I like the physical, intimidating presence he brings to the game, simply by being on the bench.
I have watched games when he and John Scott are out of the line up. For all of those who don't think the NHL needs enforcers, watch the shift in play when your team has one compared to when they don't. The opposition is keenly aware of the fact and adjusts their willingness to run around accordingly.
I am on the record as being a big fan of old school hockey. I wish there were still bench clearing brawls. I wish more guys would pull a Matt Bradley and ensure that their super star isn't throwing punches at the risk of his health and that of the team. I wish every team had a Derek Boogaard, and I wish the NHL would get off my back about liking that style of hockey.
If you don't like goons, and you don't want them in the game, so be it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If you don't watch hockey because of goons and fighting, good. We don't want you to watch anyway. I think figure skating is on on NBC still. Enjoy.
Now, on to the unpopular part.
I think Boogey should have gotten seven to ten games for this offense. Before you take my head off, let me explain. (At this point, please pause while those who refuse to read any further jump to the comment section and tell me how stupid I am.)
Still with me? Good. Here is my thinking. While I hate that Boogey will be out of the line-up against Calgary today. However, I hate the message this suspension sends more than I will miss Boogey. The knee-to-knee hit used to only be a tripping call. It was a two minute minor, and nothing more. It was a "hockey play." Then, it started to be recognized as ending careers. The NHL stepped in and issued their weak little ultimatum. They would "crack down" on these dangerous hits.
Then, they would do nothing, as usual.
As one comment in the last thread pointed out, Ovechkin only got two games after going knee-to-knee earlier in the season. The difference is that Ovechkin, for better or worse, had no prior suspensions. That is supposed to be a factor in this. If a guy has prior offenses, the punishment is supposed to get worse, not easier. Boogey has a prior five game suspension from last season. One I believed to be too long, but it is what it is.
Punishment for offenses needs to be clear. Transparent. It needs to be spelled out, and unequivocal. There should be case by case examination, sure, but only for mitigating circumstances to determine if suspension is due or if the suspension should be worse than it would normally be. Case by case basis examination should not make it possible for a repeat offender to get less of a punishment than he did before.
Boogey had a five game suspension last year. If the NHL felt two games were warranted here, it should have been seven. Five games for being a repeat offender, and two for the knee. We all love Down Goes Browns flow chart, and it is loved because of it's truth and humor. The NHL needs to have a real chart, with levels of suspension for each offense and increasing punishment for repeat offenses. It needs to be crystal clear to fans and players alike.
Just because Boogey wears a red sweater does not make me change my opinion of the NHL discipline system. It is a joke, and it is dangerous. Boogaard deserved more than two games for this. Regardless of intent. Besides, how do you determine intent? Is a player really going to come out and say "I couldn't get him clean, so I stuck my leg out, squirmy little bastard should have taken the hit." No, it won't happen. So, I ask again, how do you determine intent?
At some point intent needs to be set aside, and the act itself needs to be punished. You want to get rid of knee-to-knee hits? Suspend players for them, and harshly. Increase the severity with each offense. They will stop. Apply it to head shots, and they too will stop.
Here's the deal. As much as I want to come to the defense of Boogey, I can't. It was a dirty hit, and he deserved more than two games. I love the goons, I love that they play on the line and just over it. I love the danger involved in that. I love the intimidation of that. I don't want to see anyone get hurt, and at the same time, part of the love of a game such as hockey is that at any moment, someone could. I love that. The league shouldn't. The league should be doing everything in its power to protect the players.
Re-reading this, it sounds hypocritical, as if I want to be on both sides of the fence. I am on both sides of the fence. I don't want the goons removed from the game. At the same time, I want them punished when they make dirty plays. If you stop and think about it for a second, the two can be reconciled.
For those of you who read all the way to the end before commenting, I thank you. You may now commence tearing me a new one.
-Buddha
0 recs |
19 comments
|
Comments
I won't rip you, I agree 100%
At the risk of sounding like an “OMFG, YOU ARE SO RIGHT” doosh bag, this almost exactly expresses my opinion as well. Of course, I believe this has been the popular opinion of most verteran hockey fans for more than a few years now ;-)
And don’t worry about the voices of multiple personality running through your head—they only become a problem when they STOP talking to you :P
Let's Go Wild!
I disagree...
First, I’d like to say that I AGREE with you on keeping enforcers in hockey, for many reasons, some of which you pointed out.
Next, I personally don’t think he should’ve been suspended at all, but, definitely not for 7-10 as you suggested and here’s why: I know that hockey players are not known for being extremely intelligent (stereotype or not) but I have serious problems believing that anyone who makes their living (and a pretty good on at that) based on their ability to play a game that requires them to skate would intentionally make knee-to-knee contact with another player, if for no other reason, than to prevent injury to themselves. Additionally, Boogey’s first suspension was for elbowing. So, while technically he is a repeat offender in that he’s now been suspended twice, they are for two completely different things, so, I feel that 2 games is completely legit. If he were to get suspended AGAIN for kneeing, then I would agree with a 5-10 game suspension. Another point, the referees only gave him a 2 minute minor penalty. Clearly, if they thought there was intent to injure, they would’ve given him a major or a game misconduct… and they’ve got the best view of anyone.
Another point, watch the video again. It’s hard to see in the one you’ve embedded here, but Boogey has his legs wide, ready to hit Jones BEFORE Jones cuts around him. Boogey didn’t move his legs, he actually leaned over and tried to get a shoulder on him. He didn’t stick his knee out, which is the whole point of the kneeing penalty, he was simply skating, with a wide solid base, lowering his body, ready to make a thunderous hit. Even Jones said he didn’t think it was intentional, and if anyone should have a good feel for that, it’d be the guy that got hit.
I have serious issues with the kneeing and hits to the head suspensions/issues because they very subjective. As I already mentioned, there’s a ton of risk to the player delivering a knee-to-knee hit, so I don’t think most players would do it intentionally (minus serious whack jobs ala Chris SImon, etc). Take the Ovie suspension: it was crap. Ovie was trying to cut in front of him and make the hit. If he didn’t, it’s a goal and everyone is on him for not stopping the guy (was it Whitney??? I can’t remember). He was skating and just got caught in a bad place. The head shot issue is also tricky because of the size difference amongst players. A lot of these guys aren’t trying to hit a guy’s head, it just happens. I really think that the equipment needs to change for that issue to get better. We’ve changed the rules to make the game faster, and it worked. But now, with increased speed comes bigger hits. Shoulder and elbow pads are WAY too hard. Sure, they provide better protection, but they can do too much damage.
Another point, the referees only gave him a 2 minute minor penalty. Clearly, if they thought there was intent to injure, they would’ve given him a major or a game misconduct… and they’ve got the best view of anyone.
The refs from that game were called out by every one for being useless and not making the misconduct call. So that is not going to fly as a defense.
I have watched the video, about 150 times. Boogaard went in for the hit, Jones moved, and Boogey moves his leg farther out in order to prevent him from getting by. If you don’t hink there is ever intent to injure in this manner, I would strongly disagree with that. I also don’t care if there is intent. He did it. That’s intent enough for me.
Ovechkin deserved his suspension, and I argued for it. So did the guys at Japer’s RInk. The NHL mandated that no knne-on-knee contact was acceptable, regardless of intent. The same could be done for head shots. We saw it in the Olympics, it could easily be done here.
B
I also don’t care if there is intent.
I couldn’t disagree more, unless you want all physicality removed from the game, and clearly you don’t. Take headshots for example. Chara hits Lecalvier and Vinny happens to hit his head on Chara’s shoulder, should Chara be suspended? No way. Now, if Chara sticks elbow out and INTENTIONALLY hits him in the head: whole different ball game. Intent is EVERYTHING.
Watch Boogey’s skate, his leg didn’t go out. Now watch his WHOLE BODY, his knee went out a little because he’s trying to lean into him. He’s trying to make a clean hit. He failed, clearly, and for that he deserved to sit in the box. But a suspension and fine??
As far as the refs go…. Who cares what “everyone” said about them? Have you ever officiated a hockey game? I have, and trust me, it’s a different game from that perspective. IMO, the NHL cuts the legs out from under their officials when they suspend a guy for something that he received a minor penalty for. It’s obviously not something that was just missed during the play, Jones had the puck. They were watching.
IMO the Ovechkin and Boogaard hits are nearly identical. You’ve got two guys trying to hit the puck carrier, who cuts at the last second. When they try to counter, they miss and catch their legs on the puck carrier. Can people get hurt? Yes. Do I want people to get hurt? Absolutely not. But ask yourself this: Do you want players to play with the mindset of “I’m going to try to hit a guy, unless he turns, then I’ll just let him get by”?
Yes, I want them to play the way you mentioned at the end. Rather than stick their leg out and try to catch their leg? Absolutely I do. 100%, no questions asked. That’s why there are four other guys and a goalie on the ice.
No, I have never reffed a game in my life, and to be honest, I don’t rightly care that you have. I am glad that you have, and thank you for your participation in the world of hockey. Let me counter with this. Have you ever reffed at the NHL level? I doubt it, so I’ll continue the point. These are the best players in the world, and they deserve the best refs in the world. If a ref blows a call, and they did all night long, against both sides, they deserve to not be reffing anymore. The league has the responsibility to make up when their refs blow it. That’s what they did. You should care what “everyone” thinks, or you start to sound silly.
I’m not going to argue the hit. It was bad. Everyone except you seems to think so. I am all for defending your guy, but when it is this obvious, it’s hard to swallow.
I ask you again… how do you prove intent? It is too subjective. Rarely can you determine intent, and too many times it is used as an excuse. Of course he didn’t mean to do it, the fact is, he still did.
No, I have never reffed a game in my life, and to be honest, I don’t rightly care that you have. I am glad that you have, and thank you for your participation in the world of hockey. Let me counter with this. Have you ever reffed at the NHL level? I doubt it, so I’ll continue the point. These are the best players in the world, and they deserve the best refs in the world.
My point about my having reffed, is that people complain about the officiating and they have no frame of reference. It’s easy to sit on the couch and watch your big screen and complain about the call. It’s completely different when you’re on the ice. Which is also why it doesn’t matter what “everyone” says. They aren’t all experts nor do they necessarily have the perspective to really weigh in on the subject. Are there “bad” officials in the NHL?? Perhaps, but guess what… THEY ARE THE BEST REFEREES IN THE WORLD. That’s why they’re in the NHL. If there were better ones out there, they’d be the ones working the games and these guys would be out on the arses.
Furthermore, I’d like to reiterate, I’m not saying the hit was clean, I’m saying it wasn’t suspension worthy.
Im with B on this one. No one knows anyone’s true intent except the person who commits the infraction. For the NHL to say “You meant to hurt that guy” or vise versa would just make them look stupid. And as for getting a suspension off a minor penalty, there are plenty of instances in which a player received a game misconduct and yet yielded no suspension. I say to you mitswerdna, just be glad Boogy didn’t get the Georges Laraque treatment and receive 5 games.
Here. Your turn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaG4GSyQ-tQ&feature=player_embedded
The refs did not call a penalty. There is no penalty they could call, even if they did see it. Should it be legal? Should Cooke be suspended?
Pretty dirty hit. Definitely should not be legal. Definitely should be suspended. But hey, the refs didn’t call anything, so why should the league, right?
No question the Cooke hit was dirty. There’s also no question what his intent was. With that said, I completely understand why he wasn’t suspended, although, I would’ve like him to have been. I also understand why there wasn’t a penalty, there isn’t anything “technically” illegal with the hit. It was a shoulder to the head, which, within the rules of the game isn’t prohibited. Hence the rule change proposal. This isn’t anywhere near the same thing as Boogaard, and IMO only goes to reinforce my point of intent.
How does he keep getting a roster spot? Isn’t there a kid in Houston that could take his spot. You guys already have one player that will protect your skill guys and that’s Cal Clutterbuck and he’s 10x more productive then Boogaard will ever be.
How do you guys feel about him playing with the Parent Club?
What you see is, What you get.
GO FLAMES GO!!!
We love Boogey. We just wish he would control the dirty stuff more. He has come very close to scoring several times this season, and has been given more ice time as the season moves on.
He is not going to be a super star scoring machine. He is what he is, and when he plays clean, we love him.
Why not Scott as a forward? I think he’s a liability as a D-man, but he can provide a very similar element to Boogaard with a little more control.
At least he’s gotten a goal more recently than Boogaard.
by SpaethCo on Mar 7, 2010 12:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I don’t think anyone is so naive as to think Boogaard is on the roster for his point production. He provides a different, necessary aspect to the game.
For all of those who don’t think the NHL needs enforcers, watch the shift in play when your team has one compared to when they don’t. The opposition is keenly aware of the fact and adjusts their willingness to run around accordingly.
Clutterbuck isn’t out there protecting skill guys, that’s not his game.
I can see where you are coming from when it comes to the repeat offenders, but you have to think the way the NHL is thinking. Is it possible they want to keep suspensions to a minimum because there is a decent amount of NHL fan base that watches the sport because of the “goon” players, much like the people who watch NASCAR for the wrecks? They want to see the hits, the fights, the controversy and could care less about the skill aspects of the game. As much as I hate to think that way about our sport, it has to be true. Players like Boogy put people in the seats, and influence the, we’ll say, “uneducated” hockey fan to turn the game on their televisions.
On to Ovie. Correct me if Im wrong, but this is Boogaard’s first knee to knee suspension, and Ovie has at least two bad knee to knee collisions (Gleason and Gonchar). (Not to mention the slew foots, and other dirty play) 8 has one suspension that I am aware of, and going by your progressive suspension plan, he would have at least two more games, and could very possibly be upwards of 6 or 8 if the NHL decides to suspend for checks from behind and head shots. My point is, if the NHL wants to dish out equal discipline (or at least make that appearance) they had to give Boogy two games.
Hockey is a contact sport, where injuries are just about guaranteed to every person who plays, its inevitable. You are never going to get rid of knee to knee hits, head shots, or dirty play no matter how much you suspend players. Things like that just happen.
The suspension isn't for intent to injure
It’s for being out of control. It’s no different than a slash or highstick call because you aren’t in control of the stick. Even if you didn’t mean to catch the guy in the face, you have to be in control.
Boogaard wasn’t in control of his limbs here, and as a result he was involved in an unsafe play. The NHL needs to attempt to mitigate these unsafe plays, just like hitting from behind, etc.
Proprietor of Hockey Wilderness - We take Minnesota hockey WAY too seriously.
Subjectivity vs. Objectivity
Unfortunately, the “subjective” call just isn’t cutting it any longer. I agree that there are some really bad exremes to which the “objective” rule of thumb for knee-on-knee and head-shots can be applied, but the inverse argument leaves players getting VERY injured (see Savard, Marc vs. Matt Cooke).
The game needs rid of these types of plays, and the only way I can see that happening is with extreme consequences. I don’t like the fact that this opens the door to players being punished for unintended actions, but the other side of the argument ends careers.
Let's Go Wild!

by 


















