Pension Plan Puppets vs Toronto Sun: The Latest Battlefield in Old vs New?
By now, hopefully most of you have read about the Toronto Sun's borrowing fair use bald-faced rip off of a Pension Plan Puppets translation of an article written, in Czech, about Tomas Kaberle. The article was then cited by other media outlets such as TSN and others.
Go over to PPP for the full story and background. What we have here at Hockey Wilderness is a full-throated defense of the work done by PPP, and a justification for why what the Sun did was wrong. My view point, after the jump.
Hopefully all of you can find a definition of plagiarism, and can take the time to read up on the issue at hand. I am not going to go into the specifics, so if you fall behind, take a second and catch back up, OK? OK.
What I want to focus on is why, in the name of everything good, would anyone care? This is a real question being thrown around. Why would PPP care that the Sun did this? Why would other bloggers care? Why, oh dear Bryan, would you care? The answers go to the depth and breadth of the chasm between traditional media (print, TV, radio) and the so called "new" media (webites, podcasts,etc).
First off, why does PPP care? I am not them, but I can put myself in their shoes. They care because someone did them a huge favor, translating an entire article (as JS once did for us) for the readers of PPP. The article is of no use to 99.9999% of Leafs nation if it is not translated. The people who read the original Czech article are the only people who would know the story. Leafs fans, who have a huge buy in, would never get the information.
That work was then stolen by a major newspaper, who then claimed the translation as their own. Any of you ever had someone else take credit for something you did? How did it feel? Now imagine if someone not only stole your work, but also that of someone who was kind enough to do that work for you, as a favor to you. Would you not be upset? If not, then you can stop reading now, because you and I do not see the world in the same way, and we will only end up arguing until the cows come home.
There are things in this world that can be done the right way or the wrong way. The Sun did it the wrong way, and now they are expending considerable effort to cover their asses.
Next question - why do other bloggers care? This answer is a little more complicated. As we have learned in the past, blogs exist for different reasons. Some exist simply to throw out as many expletives as they possibly can while maintaining a euphoric high about how special that makes them. Some blogs wish to convey a more professional feel, and some do their best to fall somewhere in the middle.
The biggest issue at hand is the chasm between the "new" media world of blogs and podcasts, and the traditional media of print, TV, and radio. There are bridge builders in this world, such as Russo and Wysh. They are the way the world should work. Doing all types of media, reaching out across the lines and making it clear that the war is one that does not need to be fought.
I cannot think of a member of the new media camp that feels that traditional media has no place in this world. Certainly newspapers are struggling, but no one thinks that reporters such as Russo should go away. The medium is the issue, not the people, and certainly not their abilities. The days of newsprint certainly seem to be numbered, and some of us certainly hope that does not mean the demise of the StarTribune.
To be sure, there are more bridge builders than warriors. However, all it takes is a spark.
The battle is being fought. Bloggers are denied access because they are "just a website." Bloggers are treated as nearly sub-human by many major sports franchises, and by the traditional media. Bloggers are told that they have no ethics, have no accountability, and have no place in the press box.
However, when a major newspaper such as the Sun takes work from a blog, it renders the argument of ethics invalid. Do we think for a second that the Sun and Mr. Fuller are not going to be issued credentials for this coming season? It is not even a question. He, and they, will be there. They are a newspaper so, by definition, they are without fault. Right? Wrong, but the mistakes made by traditional media outlets tend to be overlooked and forgiven very quickly, while mistakes made by a blogger result in bans not only for themselves, but all online media.
That is why this is important to other bloggers. It is part of the battle for credibility. Traditional media has painted blogs as unethical and a source of useless banter. Blogs have painted traditional media as backwards and stubborn, unwilling to accept change. Both sides are right, and both sides are wrong.
On this singular issue, the Sun is wrong, and the outcry from bloggers and readers alike should certainly be enough to convince them of that. As I was once reminded, it is not me that gets to decide if what I write is right or wrong, it is the readers. My job is to serve the readers, and if I steal to do that, I should expect to be called out for it. Instead, the Sun trots out editors, so called lawyers, and their own definitions of plagiarism to defend the indefensible.
Unethical behavior by one member of the traditional media. The only ones willing to call them out? Members of the new media. It is sad, but it is the reality of the world as we know it. If PPP had flat out stolen quotes from the Sun, they would be immediately chastised and labeled as thieves.
So, the basic argument comes down to this. Bloggers want equality, and part of equality means that the rules have to be the same for everyone.
Why do you care, Bryan? I care for the same reason that other journalists care when a reporter is jailed for refusing to disclose a source. I care for the same reason that when a union strikes, other unions refuse to cross the picket line. Simply put, I care because it matters.
Some may point and laugh at that belief system. For those, I kindly invite you to comment below. I look forward to the debate.
When bloggers stand up and defend their rights, they are told they are whining or being cry babies. After all, traditional media would never complain about being shut out or not given access, right? Wrong. It happens all the time. Ever heard or read the line "[Media Outlet] was denied a request for comment" or "Calls to the subject of the story were not returned." That is the traditional media way of saying "We weren't given access, so we are going to make you look like the jerk."
When multiple bloggers react to one blog being wronged, it is time for someone to take notice. That's why I care. Because my friends, my colleagues, my co-workers have been wronged. The writers at PPP are not robots, nor is the reader who did the translation. These are real people, with rights. Just because the bulk of them are uncompensated does not make their work less valuable.
It comes down to Wysh's key point. The Sun was scooped by a competitor. If it had been the Toronto Star, the source would have been cited. But this was just a blog. Note the "just" in that sentence. That is full definition of the rift between new and old. "Just." By using that word, blogs are told to sit down, shut up, and know your role. When it becomes OK for the Sun to (as they have admitted) read a blog and use the quotes directly from the post they read, and then not cite where they got those quotes, it is wrong.
Lawyers and pundits can argue about the definition of plagiarism. I tend to err on the side of caution and site everything that is not my won original work. Call me old-fashioned. I believe it is plagiarism, as do many, many others. What I do know, without the slightest bit of debate, is that what the Sun did was wrong.
But no one should care, because it was in newsprint.
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It all boils down to this
How would the Sun react if TSN had posted its story without mentioning them?
http://twitter.com/knowsknothing
Amazing write up on the situation.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 21, 2010 2:02 PM CDT reply actions
Nice write up.
…and I think a reasonably fair summary of the situation. Rec’d.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
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Disclaimer – Leonsis is an investor in SBNation, the parent of this blog. Just thought you all should know that, too.
Hockey Wilderness
Assistant Editor:SBN Minnesota
Rule #17: You may not impersonate representatives of Hockey Wilderness and handout NHL themed wrist bands.
I never knew that
but that is amazing.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 23, 2010 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Great post, Bryan.
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Thank you, good sir.
Hockey Wilderness
Assistant Editor:SBN Minnesota
Rule #17: You may not impersonate representatives of Hockey Wilderness and handout NHL themed wrist bands.
The one wrinkle has been the objective question of “Did PPP have the right to publish a translated copy of the article in its entirety?”
Normal media cannot copy another article verbatim, translated or not. They are however allowed to pull excerpts. Especially in the case of an article (such as this one) where there is a lot of opinion/analysis done by the author, the content of their ideas is their own IP. Quotes however, are supposedly free game, as they are factual (in the sense that they were spoken on the record) and therefore can be quoted as news without being ‘owned’ by the media outlet that reported them. However, if you as a second party do not have your own source for those quotes, you do have to attribute them to the outlet that first reported them.
If translations of those quotes are copied word for word from PPP (given that translation programs are not even close), it reeks to me of unethical behaviour. Even if you take the opinion that PPP was wrong to post the translated article, the net result would still be the Sun stole from stealers – two wrongs don’t make a right, especially when one of those wrongs is supposed to be a professional with a code of ethics.
- – - – - – - – -
The interesting question to me is how blogs stack up as media outlets.
If I buy a Czech newspaper and want to read an article, my friend could translate it for me and provide the copy without much concern from any party (likely covered under Fair Use). In the sense that some blogs (SBN especially) act as more of a community centre/discussion forum, the ‘friendly translation’ analogy is how most of us would interpret the original posting.
The counterpoint to this view is that the internet is not a private discussion zone, but is universally broadcast. If, lets say, I wanted to share a song with my buddy and play it over the phone, there would not be any concerns. If I played that same song over a CB radio and told him to tune in to listen, that would be a problem because it is now being publicly broadcast despite my intentions to aim it to a single target.
Internet blogs in this sense cannot wantonly post copied articles from other sources, as they are broadcasting them for all to see, without being the original authors of the works.
- – - – - – - – -
Most SBN blogs are very good about linking and only pulling small quotes (if at all) from interesting online articles. Over at PPP, for example, the daily FTB link dump is full of content to explore, and usually has no more than a 5-10 word description of the article (i.e. “Death by Leaf’s take on Kadri’s chances to make the team”).
I’ve rarely seen anyone try and post someone else’s full article.
One thing to draw from this whole debacle is that if you come across a foreign article of interest, drop them a line and see if it is okay to post a translation on the blog. If they say “no”, then your translator friend can just come up with his own summary of the article and the opinions within, including some pull quotes, with a link to the original source.
It is also clear that newspaper journalists should not be ripping off the translation efforts of another party – no matter what claims they perceive that party to have or not have.
Do your own work, and admit it when you don’t.
by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 22, 2010 12:28 PM CDT reply actions
Yeah
The good outcome of this for SBN writers is that we now have clear outlines from our lawyer about how to do foreign translations.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Well… at least there’s that. I still feel like punching a seal over all of this, though.
Hockey Wilderness
Assistant Editor:SBN Minnesota
Rule #17: You may not impersonate representatives of Hockey Wilderness and handout NHL themed wrist bands.
Stop on by then
We have many seals worth punching up here.
Some of them even have human names, like “Cox” or “Fuller”..
by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 24, 2010 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec’d
Hockey Wilderness
Assistant Editor:SBN Minnesota
Rule #17: You may not impersonate representatives of Hockey Wilderness and handout NHL themed wrist bands.
Great, well balanced article.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 22, 2010 3:12 PM CDT reply actions
Much appreciated.
Hockey Wilderness
Assistant Editor:SBN Minnesota
Rule #17: You may not impersonate representatives of Hockey Wilderness and handout NHL themed wrist bands.
Great article once again Bryan... Here's my take on things...
As most of HW know, I translated Guillaume Latendresse’s interview with RDS (TSN’s french twin) from french to english (with the written permission of RDS). I spent a total of about 15 hours translating the whole thing in a three part series. After all that time and effort that went into this, which I did so the fans here in HW could have a little inside taste of what G-Lat’s all about, if I knew that someone else had taken my work, without my permission, and posted it in a blog or on a newspaper, without giving me credit for my work, for the sole purpose of drawing readers in for their own personal gain, I would’ve been crushed and mad.
A whole lot of work goes into translating, which is why this fiasco is a big deal. If the Sun couldn’t handle it, they should’ve found a better way than stealing someone else’s hard work. Who would you rather have an appointment with? A doctor who only had A+ on his tests, but cheated on every single one? Or someone who had B+ and A- but worked his ass off to get those grades?
And about bloggers not having their rightful place in the press box with all the other media, that’s a load of horseshit to me. You mean to tell me it’s more important to get news that EVERYONE will broadcast anyway, like radio, television and all that, than it is for a blogger to get perhaps the inside story of the game, or interesting tidbits for fans to enjoy? Seriously, I can bet you that 100% of the time, the blogger will care a lot more about being in the press box doing his job than any other member of the media, even if it’s not an official job in which you get paid for the most part.
Blogs are as important as the other sources of media, if not more important. Why do you think newpaper and radio are dying? Internet is killing them with more accessibility, more interesting stuff, and sometimes, less bullshit.
POWER TO SBN, ITS BLOGS AND ITS WRITERS!
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Oh, and another thing...
With translations, it can be hard to tell if there’s been plagiarism, because usually, there isn’t much more than one way to translate words from one language to another, but if I take my G-Lat example again, I made the translation like 2-3 weeks after the interview took place. If someone’s putting it up elsewhere like 1 or 2 days after my work’s been published, something’s wrong. This alone should be a good enough comeback if they say it’s not an exact replica right?
JS, Champion of the first ever Hockey Wilderness Playoff Bracket Challenge! WHOOOOOOOO!
twitter: BubbleWild48
I can only imagine how much work it took. Personally, when I write stuff, I love the feeling that people are reading it and are enjoying what I have to say.
Regarding to this whole Sun fiasco, I’m sure PPP and the blogger who did the translate who feel extremely great if they were just mentioned, even with a few words such as “translation credited to PPP”.
But no. You have the Sun copying WORD FOR WORD (really? word for word? are you THAT dumb?) and not expressing any gratitude for their hard work?
Its unethical, stupid and if I was the blogger that spent my hard time doing this for others, I would be emotional hurt knowing that MY hard work is being read by thousands around the globe and everyone thinking it came from a guy named Dave Fuller.
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Bingo
5-10 words would have made us go “cool!” instead of “RAGE!”
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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