Stealing the Winter Classic Away from the East
by FinnfortheWin on Dec 10, 2011 3:42 PM CST
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PrintSince the day he bought the Wild, owner Craig Leipold has been advocating for Minnesota to host the Winter Classic. It makes sense, right? Where else in the U.S. is outdoor hockey such a fabric of people's lives as it is in Minnesota? On the surface, it seems ridiculous that we have had to sit back and play 3rd fiddle to the teams on the east coast. Now the waiting has become nearly unbearable as teams such as the Flyers and Penguins are enjoying their 2nd Winter Classic invitation without Minnesota receiving any serious consideration.
But as we all know, the decision on where to host the Winter Classic goes far beyond picking based upon hockey hot-beds and deserving fans. Follow me through the jump as we decide whether or not images of snowflakes collecting on Brodziak's mustache (#signbrodziak) should be dancing through Wild fans' heads in 2012-2013.
Why Minnesota should host the 2013 Winter Classic:
The Venue: Minnesota has no shortage of outdoor arenas with the recent constructions of TCF Bank Stadium and Target Field.
Target Field: Voted the #1 Stadium experience by ESPN the Magazine, Target Field is a stunning venue nestled in the Warehouse District of west downtown Minneapolis. The baseball stadium seats 39,504 and would support a lower attendance than TCF Bank Stadium. However, the utilization of a baseball stadium and its lower capacity is not unprecedented (Fenway brought in 38,112 fans in 2010 and Wrigley seated 40,818 in 2009).
TCF Bank Stadium: The horseshoe shaped football stadium is located on the University of Minnesota campus in Minneapolis. It boasts a higher capacity than Target Field, with 50,805 seats, and provides better sight-lines than a baseball field. Bettman has said in the past he prefers to host Winter Classics in football stadiums due to the better sight-lines and would only consider baseball stadiums if it's a particularly historic venue. (i.e. not Target Field)
The Weather: The average temperature on January 1st in Minneapolis is a balmy 16°F. Combine that with the ice expertise brought in by our own Travis Larson, and it's possible Minnesota could provide the best ice a Winter Classic has ever seen.
The Fans: Arguably the greatest asset Minnesota brings to a Winter Classic. A Winter Classic in Minneapolis would bring about a state holiday in Minnesota. The Twin Cities revolve around the state tournament when it is in town, imagine the effect a once in a decade event like the Winter Classic would have. This game would sell-out, period. Doesn't matter the Wild's record, who they play, or where they play, Minnesotans will flock to the Winter Classic.
Beyond attendance issues, Minnesotans deserve to host the Winter Classic. It's the premiere (regular season) event for professional hockey. Sure, hosting the draft and the All-star game are fun tid-bits, but neither spot lights our team or our hockey tradition. Hockey, and outdoor hockey specifically, is a defining characteristic of a Minnesotan. Along with ice fishing, kind manners, and wearing shorts when the thermometer hits 50, we eat, sleep and breathe hockey (don't chya know?).
Why Minnesota won't get the Winter Classic:
The Wild: The Wild have one of the weakest non-regional fan bases in the NHL. Casual fans just do not gravitate towards the Wild. We don't have a Crosby type All-Star, we don't play for a popular metropolitan area like Boston, Philly or New York, and we still carry the undeserved tag of a boring team who relies on the trap and stingy goal-tending to over come our lack of talent.
The Match-up: The Wild do not have a great American rivalry to highlight an event such as the Winter Classic.
Dallas Stars: For Minnesotans, the sexy choice is Dallas because scars run deep. But who else would care about this match-up? I don't even think Stars fans buy into this "rivalry" as much as we do.
Vancouver Canucks: For me, the clear choice is Vancouver because they are arguably our biggest rival. However, Canadian teams traditionally do not participate in the Winter Classic.
Winnipeg Jets: See Canucks. Geographically close, but Canadian and no rivalry.
Chicago Blackhawks: Chicago is geographically our nearest American opponent, but any rivalry that was there left with the Norris division. Hopefully the realignment will renew this rivalry, but right now the only positive to be taken from this match-up is the inclusion of the Chicagoland area's affect on television ratings.
$$$$$$: It's all about the benjamins, baby. The event itself would be a huge success for the local economy with ticket, hotel, bar and restaurant revenue, but that is not the NHL's or Bettman's concern. The whole point of the Winter Classic is to "grow the brand" and generate money through television ratings and advertisement. As previously covered, the Wild do not draw in a large national audience because they don't have any marketable superstars and their regional fan base is small compared the the populations surrounding New York, Boston, and Philadelphia. They also do not have a regional opponent that could sufficiently boost ratings enough to make up for it. If the Wild do end up getting the Winter Classic, we will certainly be matched up against the Blackhawks or Red Wings for this reason alone.
My thoughts:
Forget about generating revenue for one year, Bettman. Minnesota deserves the Winter Classic regardless of the ratings it will garner. 2013 Winter Classic: Minnesota Wild vs. Chicago Blackhawks at TCF Bank Stadium.
What do you think Wilderness?
The opinions posted here are not those of Hockey Wilderness
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Nice write-up
Forget about generating revenue for one year, Bettman. Minnesota deserves the Winter Classic regardless of the ratings it will garner.
This is the biggest obstacle, and you hit the nail on the head. The Wild won’t generate national revenue or national ratings. Minnesota fans have to bank on tradition and heritage, but those words don’t actually mean anything to Bettman.
He’s an NBA guy who jumped brands when there was an opportunity to make more money. He wouldn’t know what hockey tradition is. He runs the NHL like it’s the same as basketball, and it’s incredibly evident by his desire to get an NHL team in Las Vegas. The only other sport that has gone on and on about a franchise in Vegas is the NBA.
You know you're a Wild fan if Spam Whoopie Gerald-buns comes up in conversation
Regressing all the way back to high school hockey.
Good Read!
I would say, if Minnesota got the Winter Classic, it should be at Target Field. It, in my opinion, would have better sight lines than the Bank. but just my opinion.
Great report.
I think we should wait another year build a rivalry with the Blackhawks (while letting some of our younger players work into the roster) and then attempt to bring one to TCF stadium. We will have a much more marketable team and some hatred built up with the Hawks again. 2014 Winter Classic!!!
Given the Fenway/Wrigley numbers.
I would expect Target Field to seat somewhere in the neighborhood of 46,000 for a hockey game.
I think
that if the Wild can make a deep playoff run their chances improve. If Granlund comes and lights it up next year and the Wild make the playoffs 2 years in a row then things improve again. Next year (13) isn’t really feasible but if the cards fall right then ’14 is a possibility. It is painful to think it will take that long but that is the earliest I think the NHL will allow a non Gigantic market to host a game.
The Key to this thing
The key to this puzzle is to make a deep playoff run this year, building rivalries along the way, and then re-inforce them the following year in the new division. Playing Detroit and Chicago several times a year, and hopefully in the playoffs will get people to watch and pay attention. Adding a Star Player like Parise would certainly help the national ratings.
The reason no one has been watching the Wild, is because they haven’t had a reason to. Who honestly would tune in to watch a top line featuring Mittens and a 40 year old Brunette. This year is already paying dividends, and people are starting to talk….hopefully things continue
by Brandon Godward on Dec 11, 2011 1:18 PM CST reply actions
I agree that a competitive/relevant team, a rivalry with Chicago or Detroit and the addition of a star player would help, but I wouldn’t call it the key. The Wild being successful right now isn’t drawing people in to watch them (outside of the local coverage area) and Parise doesn’t have the stardom to draw in a significant number of viewers. (How many people outside of NJ/NY tune into Devils games now because of him?)
Even with those scenarios coming to fruition, a Winter Classic involving the Wild wouldn’t draw enough national attention to make it a better option, in Bettman’s eyes, than throwing the Pens into their 3rd WC against the Caps.
by FinnfortheWin on Dec 11, 2011 2:53 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe Wild vs. Avalanche?
Look something like this?
Saying this despite potential ratings, etc. Just a thought.
by iLoveHockey on Dec 11, 2011 6:23 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
That just wouldn't be fair...
Robert Goulet serenading our players into a slumber, we wouldn’t stand a chance.
by FinnfortheWin on Dec 11, 2011 6:56 PM CST up reply actions
fist NHL game I ever went too
was at eh old Met Center North Stars vs Nordiques. good guys 2-1. I was a kid and for the longest time thought they were coald the “nerds” as in the candy. ahh, to be young again.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Dec 13, 2011 10:11 AM CST up reply actions
Why do we need the Winter Classic?
Bettman will never go for it anyway. If the only appropriate match ups are Chicago and Detroit, why wouldn’t they just hold it in one of those cities, with those two teams playing each oth…oh, right. I don’t see why we don’t just make up our own “classic” tradition. Maybe we could call it the Western Classic and give a big middle finger to Bettman and the east coasters. Too bad with the realignment it wouldn’t make sense anymore.
by BlizzardWizard on Dec 11, 2011 10:27 PM CST reply actions
How about the Norris Classic
It could rotate between the teams in the new Norris division conference. being intra division conference would provide some great rivalry experience for the fans every year in a game that would always have meaning in the standings.
It is an absolute travesty that MN hasn’t had a Winter Classic yet, we do have 2 great places to get it, but if the Vikes get their new stadium, then that would be a perfect place for a Winter Classic. I bet you could get 100k fans to attend at the proposed Vikes.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Dec 13, 2011 10:18 AM CST up reply actions
Thats an interesting thought
Could we possibly turn Hockey Day Minnesota into an annual outdoor game?
I don’t know if the NHL would go for this, and I’m assuming every other team would steal the idea after we implemented it. Which would wreck the Winter Classic, but shit as long as we get a game once a year I’m happy
by Brandon Godward on Dec 12, 2011 11:06 AM CST reply actions
I don't think either of those scenarios are plausible
In the cases of a “Western Classic” and “Hockey Day MN” turning into a Wild outdoor game, you still have to find someone to foot the bill. Without the backing of the NHL and their national TV contracts, who is going to back these events knowing full well they won’t make any money off of them? The only revenue these event would bring in would be from tickets, merch, and the paltry FSN contract, which probably wouldn’t even cover the cost of advertising, renting a venue, building a rink, and paying event staff.
Additionally, you’d have to get the NHL’s approval to hold such a thing in place of a regular season game. If the game doesn’t count, it just becomes a glorified scrimmage. As you pointed out, they would never do this because it would dilute the aura of the Winter Classic.
by FinnfortheWin on Dec 12, 2011 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
The NHL definitely would drop the ban hammer on that idea. No way the NHL would allow another outdoor game to ruin the novelty of the Winter Classic. Bettman and the NHL have a hard enough time accepting the Heritage Classic, and it only really slides because it’s for the Canadian market.
You know you're a Wild fan if Spam Whoopie Gerald-buns comes up in conversation
Regressing all the way back to high school hockey.
by JDesthubert on Dec 12, 2011 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
Oh, I don't know.
I think the teams involved might be able to foot the bill. In Minnesota, at least, there aren’t many other opportunities for Target Field or TCF to be used in the winter time. With the fervor for outdoor hockey here, I think there would be a lot of money to be made in attendance and merchandising.
Apart from that, why would Bettman care if another outdoor game were being played? In fact, it would allow him to play east coast teams as often as he wants for Winter Classic matchups by not worrying about losing money on Western Conference teams. Serious NHL fans aren’t going to pick one OR the other, most of us would watch both. Plus, you’re only increasing merch sales if you double the amount of sweaters and nick-nacks being produced.
I don’t think that the two teams involved are going to want to pay to renovate either Target or TCF into a hockey stadium. They have to pay for the cooling system underneath, as weather is unpredictable and it could end up being 36 degrees and melting the ice. Then they have to build the boards, benches, and penalty boxes, and modify the stadium to allow for the NHL desks and all the camera angles and such. Then they have to pay specific workers to take on the project. It’s a lot of up-front costs.
As for Bettman, it ruins the novelty of the Winter Classic. In reality, if the Wild just go ahead and do their own outdoor game, what’s to stop at least half of the league from doing it? The Wild are special to us, but there’s nothing special about the team in the grand scheme of the NHL that would dictate that Minnesota is the only team that gets to break the WC rules and do their own outdoor game.
Remember that you have to take a step back and look at the Winter Classic through the eyes of the NHL. Everyone seems to be coming up with only pro-Minnesota arguments, but no one wants to seem to view this game from the perspective of the NHL as a business. They like the novelty of the game, so having multiple Winter Classics probably won’t happen. The NHL as a business wants large markets (not just one large market) to boost ratings and merchandising. The NHL as a business also needs NBC on board with the match-up, as NBC doesn’t want to roll out a team that would put most of the country to sleep. People outside of Minnesota don’t like Wild hockey. It’s the reality of the situation.
You know you're a Wild fan if Spam Whoopie Gerald-buns comes up in conversation
Regressing all the way back to high school hockey.
I never said it had to just be Minnesota every year. I was also saying that it would be a way to increase profits. You say that the NHL doesn’t want to go outside of the east coast is that they think the markets in other towns aren’t big enough to support the same numbers you get in east coast match ups. Look at it this way, all you would be doing is changing another regular season game between two western conference teams to be played outdoors. It’s not going to detract from Winter Classic viewership, especially if western conference teams “put most of the country to sleep.” People who feel that way and don’t want to watch, won’t. No one is going to be making the choice between Winter Classic East and Winter Classic West. You can watch both if you want to. The only difference is that now there would be twice the number of sweaters to sell, and you might get more viewers watching what would normally be a regular season western conference game. Oh, and a lot of east coast fans will be talking shit about how boring and worthless Winter Classic West is.
I never said it had to just be Minnesota every year.
Neither did I.
It’s not going to detract from Winter Classic viewership
Having a 2nd WC game ruins the novelty of the Winter Classic. Part of the reason why it’s such a big ratings hit is because it’s the only game of its kind. People tune in because it’s the only outdoor NHL game people can watch in the U.S. So yes, it actually does detract from the Winter Classic.
No one is going to be making the choice between Winter Classic East and Winter Classic West.
NBC will be making that choice. They, like the NHL, only want to broadcast one outdoor game because of the ratings it draws. Having two ruins the novelty of having the outdoor game. It’s like supply and demand economics. Scarcity drives up price. NBC won’t pick up the contract for a “Winter Classic West” if it ruins the novelty of the game. Plus, NBC won’t pick up a national game that won’t cover the original costs of the game.
Now, you keep saying that it would just increase profits. If that were the case, don’t you think the NHL would have done it already? Both the NHL and NBC like the novelty of having one outdoor game. That’s what drives the ratings up and keeps them up. It’s a one-of-a-kind game.
Look, I get that you want to see the Wild in a Winter Classic game, and I do applaud that you’re thinking outside the box; however, the NHL and NBC won’t allow a 2nd game like the Winter Classic, and they’re definitely not going to put on a 2nd WC game just so small markets in the west can feel included.
You know you're a Wild fan if Spam Whoopie Gerald-buns comes up in conversation
Regressing all the way back to high school hockey.
Neither did I.
O RLY?
The Wild are special to us, but there’s nothing special about the team in the grand scheme of the NHL that would dictate that Minnesota is the only team that gets to break the WC rules and do their own outdoor game.
Everyone seems to be coming up with only pro-Minnesota arguments, but no one wants to seem to view this game from the perspective of the NHL as a business.
Look, I get that you want to see the Wild in a Winter Classic game
Dude, please stop saying that I only want to see the Wild in a winter classic game. I would love to see it happen, but I’m more interested in slowing or halting these repeat appearances, and seeing more teams get a chance to play.
NBC will be making that choice. They, like the NHL, only want to broadcast one outdoor game because of the ratings it draws.
So, let me get this straight, the only way an outdoor game can ever happen is if NBC agrees to cover it?
Now, you keep saying that it would just increase profits. If that were the case, don’t you think the NHL would have done it already?
The reason I think the NHL hasn’t done it yet is because there are a lot of clueless execs who think the only way to have a successful Winter Classic is to replay old east coast rivalries year after year. We will just have to agree to disagree that a Western Classic type game would detract from Winter Classic ratings. That is to say, if you made the Winter Classic exclusive to the east, you get to have a major market matchup every year. You eliminate the complaint that every Winter Classic involving Western Conference teams is a slight financial loss. In the meantime, you run a Western Conference game and pick up that market too. I guess I just don’t see how you can say that Western Conference teams bore eastern conference fans to death, while simultaneously saying that a Western Classic would detract from Winter Classic viewership. Even if it did, BOTH games are NHL games! The league wins whichever one you decide to tune in to! It’s not like the average viewer is going to look at both and say, “Hmmm…Winter Classic or Western Classic. Neither!?”
While I agree that the novelty of the Winter Classic is what helps make it popular, I disagree that the novelty is inseparable from the scarcity. Officially the NHL agrees with you, saying that having two outdoor games risks “oversaturating” the market. But considering that last year’s Heritage Classic was by all accounts a huge financial success, I think the oversaturation thing is a bugbear. Also, according to
Nielsen ratings, half of the top viewing markets are in the Western Conference.
I don’t really believe there will be a third classic game coming into the fold. It’s just the opposite, as far as I’ve heard. Apparently there will be no Heritage Classic this year. Personally, I watched both last year and they were both a blast. I don’t see how choking out the west year after year is going to be good for the league in the long term, but I guess that’s why I’m not an NHL executive.
Anyway, as I said originally, with the realignment happening, the dynamic will probably be changed to create bigger rivalries, and that will most likely offer up new fodder for Winter Classic games.
by BlizzardWizard on Dec 13, 2011 1:18 AM CST up reply actions
The only thing I disagree with is that NBC has a very large say into what teams play. Its well known.
Right, but that doesn’t mean they have to. NBC isn’t the only game in town as far as network coverage.
by BlizzardWizard on Dec 13, 2011 9:17 AM CST up reply actions
For national broadcasts, they are.
You know you're a Wild fan if Spam Whoopie Gerald-buns comes up in conversation
Regressing all the way back to high school hockey.
NBC only has coverage until 2021. After that, I’m pretty sure the NHL will be doing some shopping around to see who wants to pay the most for exclusive coverage rights, since the Winter Classic viewership has become such a valuable commodity. CBS, ABC, and Fox are all viable alternatives, and the NHL has a history of jumping networks for coverage rights.
Even despite all that, I never downplayed the amount of say NBC has in which teams play right now. What I was implying was that you don’t have to have national coverage just to play a game outdoors. The first Frozen Fury game was played outdoors in Vegas, a town in the middle of the desert, with no hockey team. Sure, it’s a pre-season game, but I don’t see why this model couldn’t be adapted to another Western Conference match, featuring different teams each year. Of course, they play that game indoors now, but it’s been going on for 14 years.
I swear, every time I talk about this, people only want to trot out the same points about how another outdoor game just can’t happen, when in reality, they happen all the time. It doesn’t even have to be outdoors, it would just be nice to have an oddball special game to look forward to (that we can actually have a hope of being included in). What’s funny is that originally everyone said the Winter Classic wasn’t tenable, and that there was no way it would turn a profit. You could have argued that “if it’s profitable, then why isn’t the NHL doing it?” Well, they did, and it now it’s ratings rival those of the Stanley Cup.
by BlizzardWizard on Dec 13, 2011 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
the reason it wont ever happen...
There is about 20 other NHL teams that deserve to be part of the Winter Classic before Minnesota. The reasons?
1. The Wild are NOT the North Stars. If they were, maybe there’d be a chance.
2. Nobody outside of Wild fans (and whoever they play) would care to watch.
3. No rival team.
4. No superstar.
5. no one would care to watch.
6. no one would care to watch.
7. no one would care to watch.
8. and did i mention, no one would care to watch…
9. the Team has only been in existence for 11 years.
Move along troll
Ratings and interest have been addressed
by FinnfortheWin on Dec 18, 2011 4:28 PM CST up reply actions
minnesota wild
minnesota deserves it, hockey hall of fame is in minnesota, minnesota college and high school teams destroy other states’ teams. more hockey players in minnesota than any other state, more outdoor rinks in minnesota than any other state. minnesota appreciates hockey more than any other state….nuff said.
by crazywildfan on Dec 23, 2011 8:12 AM CST up reply actions
Wild deserve it, minnesota deserves it!!
Look at the number of professional hockey players coming from the US. The state of Minnesota has twice as many players coming out of it to play in the NHL than any other state. Why doesn’t our professional team do as good as our college teams? Minnesota has fans that actually have played the game and been on the ice so we definitely appreciate hockey more than any other state, i think they need to take that stuff into consideration. Also do you think the penguins and caps had fun playing in the rain on a slushy rink, in minnesota during that time the ice will be better than any outdoor rinks in the U.S.
Ratings
There’s no national ratings market for the Wild.
Seriously, for everyone who keeps ranting about tradition and culture, get it through your head…BETTMAN DOESN’T CARE ABOUT TRADITION! He’s an NBA executive that only cares about ratings.
In addition, NBC has a lot to say in who plays in the Winter Classic. They don’t want to broadcast the Wild vs. anyone.
I’ve said it multiple times, and no one has come up with an actual argument against it that makes any sense. New York is the largest single market in the U.S. Counting NYC and the surrounding area, there are 18 million people in the region. Philly is the 3rd largest city in the U.S. Boston is the 5th largest city.
There are just over 6 million people in Minnesota as a state. Philly and the surrounding area have more people. Boston and the surrounding area have more people. Which markets do you think an Executive and a T.V. station are going to cater to?
The Winter Classic has NOTHING to do with deserving. It has EVERYTHING to do with money and ratings.
You know you're a Wild fan if Spam Whoopie Gerald-buns comes up in conversation
Regressing all the way back to high school hockey.
by JDesthubert on Dec 23, 2011 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
From the mouth of Gary Bettman to the ear of Craig Leipold
The NHL wants to put the Winter Classic here, but needs four things:
1. Marketable names
2. Playoff history
3. A rivalry
4. Quality facility
Look for 2014-2015 vs. the Blackhawks, Red Wings or Stars
1. Koivu, Granlund, Zucker, Coyle, Phillips, Clutterbuck, Larsson
2. High chance of three straight playoff seasons (11-12, 12-13, 13-14)
3. With realignment, the regional rivalry game versus a national opponent in Chicago or Detroit will be built or they could finally play up the old vs. new angle.
4. NHL already said that both TCF Bank Stadium and Target Field are top ten facilities in terms of hosting a Winter Classic, so that’s done.
Either way, Leipold has said these are the four things the NHL needs to bring a WC game here.
Proprietor of Hockey Wilderness - We take Minnesota hockey WAY too seriously.
maybe so but...
watch mystery alaska and you will find the same attitude there as in minnesota, maybe we don’t make a million bucks for playing hockey, maybe we won’t get the best ratings….but we love hockey and it’s in our hearts, so give us the darn winter classic already :)
by crazywildfan on Dec 27, 2011 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
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