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Yeo to load up the top line...is it good for the Wild?
by JDesthubert on Sep 4, 2011 3:02 PM CDT
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PrintNow, I'm all for the Wild improving on their drastically low goal totals from the previous years; however, this seems like overkill.Yeo has penciled in the Wild's four forward lines to start training camp.
Yeo will load up the No. 1 line, positioning captain Mikko Koivu with newcomers Devin Setoguchi and Dany Heatley on his wings. Center Matt Cullen will center the second line with Latendresse and Pierre-Marc Bouchard.
The third line will be Darroll Powe, Kyle Brodziak and Cal Clutterbuck, and the fourth line will have interchangeable pieces starting with Colton Gillies, Eric Nystrom and Brad Staubitz.
First, Koivu is going to have to distribute to two shooters. I know it's not the NFL where wide receivers turn into prima donnas if they don't get their catches, but at some point would Heatley and Seto turn sour because they're not getting the puck enough? Probably not as likely, but there's still the outside chance that it happens. Guys who score goals want to puck, but when someone else is shooting, they can turn sour.
In addition, this would leave the 2nd line lacking a definitive shooter. Pierre-Marc, as talented as he is, isn't a shooter. We've seen how poorly Cullen will mesh with someone not willing to shoot. Granted, PMB is not Havlat, but it's still possible that the chemistry issues would resurface. Plus, there is still the enigma that is Guillaume Latendresse. Coming off his career year in Minnesota, Lats was uninspired to come out and play for that sparkly new contract. Will he actually be motivated to earn his spot, or was the 25 goals in 55 games just a fluke that occurs when a player gets traded? I'm not here to lump G-Lats with anyone, but it happens so often when a player moves, he has one great year, and then the wheels fall off. Are we, the Wilderness, watching Lats revert to the lazy player that Montreal thought they were cutting ties with?
I also see this as bad for the Wild's long-term future. I would prefer to see Heatley as the only shooter on his line in order to beef up his stats. I think it's safe to say that Dany Heatley is not in the long-term plans for the Wild, and he was brought in to be a quick-fix, band-aid player to add goals. If the Wild can pump up his stats, he could prove to be a valuable asset come draft day or deadline day. I think we would all be happy enough if Heater scores 35, helps the Wild right now, and then is dealt for more picks or prospects.
Along with Heatley, the Wild should be taking a long, hard look at PMB and his future role with the team. It seems to me that Mikael Granlund is essentially the same player, only with much more flash and pure talent. Would the Wild want to hold onto PMB and find themselves in the same hole of too many playmakers, not enough finishers? I think the pump-and-dump strategy works the same for Bouchard. Give him Setoguchi (who would be sheltered from top checking lines, freeing up his shot), allow PMB to run his point totals back up, and then see what offers roll in.
Granted, these lines are for the preseason, but that's not too far away.
What say you, readers of the Wilderness?
The opinions posted here are not those of Hockey Wilderness
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If you take Seto off line 1
then the apparent ‘problem’ becomes line 2’s problem in that GLat (who I would say is very motivated considering he has worked his butt of this summer) and Seto are both shooters. I think the success of this team has a lot to do with the success of Glat on the 2nd line. PMB is the craftiest guy on the team and he should thrive with Glat. Heatleys no slouch passer either- he can put up his 40 assists. No crafty player with Glat = Glat’s demise.
I don't really think Gui is a shooter
Sure he had a lot of goals, but I can’t seem to remember many that were pure snipes or shoots. The majority of them that I recall were him sticking his ass in front of the net and getting key rebounds or nice tips off someone else’s shot. Its a damn useful position and guy to have, but he is not a sniper in my mind. I think he may actually be the guy to put with Koivu and Heatley on that first line, than PMB, Cullen and Seto. Koivu dishing the puck to Heatley, who takes the shot with Gui in front of the net for the tip or rebound. Seems like it could work very well.
Well, it’s not so much of an “apparent problem”, but more overkill, as I stated very early on. I just think that having depth in the lines is more important than putting both 30+ guys on one line while hoping that Koivu and help hide their defensive shortcomings.
As for Gui being a shooter, I think we’re watching different players. ThatGuy has it spot on. Lats is a power forward who bullies his way to the net. He’s not going to set up shop in the high slot and look to snipe a goalie. He’s going to bruise his way to the front of the net and bang in garbage goals. It sounds like the perfect role on the top line, if he can show he’s healthy and ready to play. Either he can bang in Heatley rebounds, or Koivu can find him in the slot, much like Mikko did with Bruno.
That would leave a 2nd line of Setoguchi – Cullen – Pierre-Marc Bouchard, which I find more balanced. Cullen has a two-way game to help out defensively, Seto is the shooter, and PMB is the crafty playmaker the line needs.
I disagree.
While Lats has the size and the strength to go in a be like Thomas Holmstrom, that is not his game.
Please see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KROr_n02HDQ
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I’m not sure a top 10 list of his best goals is representative of his skill set. That is always going to be his prettiest goals. I remember and you can find on youtube a good number of rebound and garbage goals as well.
Well, I mean the guy has only scored 28 goals for the team, so a top ten is a fair percentage. Not saying he can’t score a garbage goal, but his game seems to be sniper style.
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Right you are, Bryan
It’s been that way since junior, but because of his size and speed, every one makes him out to be a Holmstrom-type player when he’s always been more of a shooter. The Habs’ faulty assessment of his talent is what made him a 4th liner, he was lost trying to play a style that wasn’t his because his coach imposed it on him.
The main thing for Lats will be to get some self-confidence back and have a strong start. If he does, he should be set for a 20+ goal season as a 2nd line shooter.
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Also,
Putting GLat with PMB= instant chemistry their playstyles compliment each other nicely and they’re both from Quebec, which should help.
JS, Champion of the first ever Hockey Wilderness Playoff Bracket Challenge! WHOOOOOOOO!
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* instant chemistry. Their playstyles blablabla
JS, Champion of the first ever Hockey Wilderness Playoff Bracket Challenge! WHOOOOOOOO!
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Lines are an art not science...
but, it is reasonable to put a strong all round player with defensive instincts (Koivu, Cullen) with scorers (Heatley, Seto + PMB, Latendresse). Possible Brodziak may exchange with Cullen.
Latendresse is a defensive liability on any other line (at least last year injured he was SLOWWW) and he is there as a scoring power forward. I recall him beating players out of the corners into the slot for goals, but he is not a speed sniper. His best efforts were with Havlat to feed him and PMB can do that.
The weakness (or perhaps lack of strength) on the second line is that the center position would ideally be more of an offensive threat to balance the scoring out. Neither Cullen or Brodziak scare anyone.
In fairness...
Cullen didn’t have a goal scorer on his wing when he took his shot at 2nd line. Havlat and he did not mesh because neither is really a shoot-first player. I think giving Cullen someone like Seto on line 2 would free up Cullen’s offense. 500 points in 958 games is nothing to scoff at. While I don’t expect Cullen to light the lamp more than 20 times, he and PMB have the speed and offensive ability to find Setoguchi in the offensive zone (if that were the case).
Swap PMB with Seto
I’d certainly shift Seto to the 2nd line and swap with PMB.
I agree that Heatley is a short term solution. I kind of hope we are lining up a bid for Parise when he becomes a free agent after the season – $80m / 10 years – and Heatley might be traded for a defenseman who can play on the top pairing.
Heatley now has a full NTC in effect, so all trades go through him. As for $8 million per for Parise… that’s a bit high. Actually, that’s really high. Crosby and Malkin make $8.7 mil. Is he less than a million per year as good as those two? Not a chance. He’s good, but not that good.
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$8m
I guess you always pay a little over in free agency rather than a guy you draft. There is no home town discount.
I’d also factor in the non-ice impact of bringing Parise home to the franchise.
Richards deal for $60m over 9 years takes him to 40years old, and really if we look at it realistically it is $57m over 6years. Kovachuck’s deal takes him to the age of 43. A 10 year deal for Parise takes him to a realistic retirement age of 37, but to make it more cap friendly then how about $83m over 13years (the last 3 at $1m a season) which takes it to $6.4m a season.
I wouldn’t jump to $8 million. Along with what BReyonlds said about elite pay, the CBA will probably bring the cap down. It’s almost back to the pre-lockout spending that only Detroit, NY Rangers, and a few other teams can actually pay. I expect deals to come down in price out of the gate, and I fully hope that this cap circumvention stops.
I won’t count on being able to discount Parise that much in the last three years of the deal, as the NHL knows that teams are just trying to get around high cap hits by artificially expanding the length.
These two issues will be addressed in the offseason when the CBA expires, which means the deal Parise will sign next year will probably have different rules to apply to.
I think his lines make sense, actually.
And I think that if PMB, Koivu and Heatley were on the top line, you could also consider it “Top-Loaded”, too. I think Seto-Koivu-Heater seems to be the best thing for all people involved. All three of them have flourished on a top line before, facing first-liners and elite checking lines. Mikko Koivu, who I think has an excellent shot, isn’t going to change. He’s not going to sacrifice defense for scoring. It just isn’t going to happen. So what do you do? You let him play Joe Thornton; he’ll make actual first line shooters better, just like he made old, slow Bruno and Nearly Talentless Mittens better than they were. Rather than putting a motivated and in-shape Latendresse on the top line, you have Seto there to offer two different types of sniper at Mikko’s disposal. Gui gets to be on a line with PMB, a very similar player to Havlat, which is good. He’s put in a position where he has succeeded before, and Bouchard gets a big shooter that he can pass to. I can’t see how this is a bad thing. Switching Latte with Seto is a problem, because the Tenderness plays a similar style and puts two non-elite skaters on the top line, and switching Seto and PMB is a problem, because only one of the guys on the top line puts a lot of shots on goal.
I don’t think chemistry will become an issue with Seto and Heater. They’ve both played on teams with much more offensive talent, and I’ve never heard of either of them complaining about having to share the puck with Boyle, Couture, Thornton, and Marleau. They’re also being brought in for one reason: to put the puck in the net. I’m sure Fletcher, Yeo, and Koivu will be able to feed them enough pucks to keep them satisfied.
And while I, personally, would like to see Wellman come up and play with Seto and PMB for an awesome speed and shot first line, I understand that Cullen has more of a two-way game, and is being payed like a second line center.
And finally, there’s no way Heatley is a short-term band-aid. The Wild are waiting for the kids, yes, but if the Wild gets a net-positive contribution from their defense, I think we’re looking at a playoff team, and perhaps a good one by the time Heatley’s contract runs out.
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I don’t necessarily disagree with how you set up the lines, or Yeo for that matter. I just have a difference of opinion, but your argument makes sense.
As for a playoff team, I’m still not ready to consider them playoff bound yet. There’s still a lot of work to do, and Fletch is really looking long-term instead of instant result, I believe. Considering that Zucker and Coyle both returned to college, Phillips will have another season in the CHL, and Granlund and Brodin are both still in Europe, I believe we’re still a couple years away from when the kids have a chance to make the lineup. Granlund will probably need some time in the AHL to get used to North American rinks and style, so he may crack the lineup in the middle of next season. Everyone else is going to need at least one full season to learn professional style hockey, and most will need to get acquainted with how fast the game is. The FO if not going to make another James Sheppard type of mistake and rush the kids in. Realistically, these guys will be lucky to be rookies by the time Heatley’s contract runs out, and I already expect him to get traded to bring back more assets.
I think the main thing to remember
Yeo’s lines aren’t carved in cement. He’s got a full 82-game schedule to play with his lines if the need arises. If a top-loaded line doesn’t work, he’ll distribute the talent more evenly on two lines. It’s as simple as this. I believe we should be worrying about what the hell Yeo’s going to do with his defensive corps, who could be equally as good as disastrous.
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Yeah, to be honest, it's starting to worry me
Since, on paper, it looks pretty damn horrible. It may turn out good, but way too many ifs and maybes beyond Zids, Zuperman and Schultzie. Heck, if any of those three miss too many games, we may be screwed!
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What is wrong with a loaded top line?
Has anyone ever heard the Ducks complain about having a top loaded line with Perry-Getzlaf-Ryan? Have any of them ever complained they don’t get enough pucks?
Now I’ll be honest, our top line is still not as good as theirs (that Ducks line is probably the best in all of hockey) but I still think it is good enough to compete. And if Lats doesn’t work out, Wellman or Clutter will.
Clutter on line two.....
First off let me say how fun it is to be discussing the possible problem of not having enough pucks to go around to our goal scorers. That’s not a bad problem to have.
Clutter moving up to line two at some point, or on occasion may make good sense. Don’t get me wrong I like these lines to start with but I think Yeo will have some opportunity to move some guys around as we go.
The question mark that we have with Latendresse is a big one and we will have to see how it plays out. If his confidence comes back to 2009-2010 levels and line one is not “gelling” Yeo may choose to have him play with Koivu and Heatley.
If he isn’t quite to that level or there is great chemistry between Seto – Koivu – Heatly then Yeo’s intention would be to have those three be the top line and PMB – Cullen – Lats be line two. Some here have questioned chemistry between Cullen and Lats due to Lats not being a "shoot first" guy. That’s where I see Clutter moving up to see how that chemistry works.
by hal.beauvais on Sep 12, 2011 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions
I think you have Clutterbuck slightly overrated. He’s good in his role as an energy guy and good depth play, but he’s not a top-6 scorer. Even last year with career numbers, Clutter is still erratic on the score sheet, not a trait a team should be looking for in a top-6 role.
Not a trait a team should be looking for in a top-6 role
Yet we had Mittens on the top line for 3 seasons :(
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This is true, and in no reality should Mitts be on a top line; however, given the organization’s lack of depth and talent, how many other options were there really?
Wellman and Clutter are inconsistent scorers who can disappear from the tally sheet games at a time. Kobasew did everything he could to play his way out of that spot. Havlat didn’t gel with Mikko, PMB was out, and Cullen is a center we need taking draws.
And, in Mitten’s defense, he was never going to be a finisher. The Wild put him in a situation that was beyond his ability.
The Habs’ faulty assessment of his talent is what made him a 4th liner, he was lost trying to play a style that wasn’t his because his coach imposed it on him.
I think it’s only fair we apply the same logic to Mittens. He played positionally well and found a bunch of open chances, but he was never going to finish like a goal scorer because he’s not a goal scorer.
by JDesthubert on Sep 13, 2011 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions
The Wild don’t, but the Aeroes do, and Yeo specifically had to call Wellman out during the AHL playoffs. He responded with 2 goals the next game, then disappeared again, hence the inconsistency argument.
by JDesthubert on Sep 14, 2011 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
As a lineup for the beginning of training camp, I like it.
1st line: Seto – Koivu – Heatley
I like the idea of two shooters on either side of Koivu, especially since the two have very different styles of play. Seto will bring speed and be aggressive. He will pair well with Mikko for breaks, pushing position deep and open play for a trailing Heater. He can play down low and close in on the net, while Heater plays in the slot looking for the blast. Mikko will be Mikko, grab the puck, be all over the place, and then lace a pass onto the tap from just about anywhere. This line will bring the speed that Bruno didn’t have and the shot that Mittens didn’t have. This pairing will get the most out of Mikko.
This line will create space and opportunity for itself, but it will also draw the best pairing each game. This will give the second line better opportunities to score and impact the game.
2nd line: Lats – Cullen – PMB
PMB is the player on the Wild that is most comparable to Havlat. He’s creative on the puck, makes good passes, and he hold’s up play while others work into higher percentage spots. Lats, by all accounts in great shape and hungry for success right now, played very well off of Havlat. He is not a garbage goal, power forward. He’s a rush the net and make a good shot sort. Bouchard is the player most likely to get the most out of Lats, and the Wild need a strong 2nd line to have any success. Cullen will add balanced play, and he’ll hopefully bounce back next season and play like a solid 2nd line center.
3rd line: Powe – Brodz – Clutter
I love this line!
4th line: Nystorm, Gillies, Staubitz
Well, hopefully Gillies looks good on this line.
I like-a the way your line taste.
People should remember that these lines are not final and are only precursors to what Yeo is going to try in the pre-season. That being said I think on paper these are the best line combinations that the Wild could roll this season and like them very much. If you look back Heatley seemed to have his best seasons when he was playing in Ottawa on a loaded line so maybe it will work better than most people would think? You gotta love the possible chemistry between PMB an Tenderness on the second line and just hope that Cullen can co-operate and do what he was paid to do as a number 2 center between them. Still wondering how well the 3rd line will come together with two similar type players centered by the reliable Brodz…will there be enough hits to go around or will you have to slide Powe down to the third line and maybe bring up a bigger player like Gillies who might have more chemistry? The 4th is a mess and you gotta hope that Gillies and Almond can come in and be studs and maybe knock Nystrom out of the line-up. Bottom line is everything looks good on paper especially up the middle these lines are def capable of bringing the Wild back to the play-offs until you look at the defensive pairings and the possible health of the goalies. Lets just hope the chemistry develops and we should be in for one of the most exciting seasons in recent years.
As far as Heatley goes...
he scored 100+ the first two years after the lockout. Teams were still trying to adjust to how the “new NHL” was supposed to be played. While he was very good that year, penalties were up, hooking/holding/obstruction was down, and refs were cracking down. Those set of events really helped give offensive numbers a boost.
Also, the Heatley – Spezza – Alfredsson line was one of the best in the NHL at that time. Calling it a loaded line does that line a disgrace. Had Spezza played more than 68 games in the 2005-2006 season, that line has a real possibility of having all three players break 100 points. Nothing against Mikko or Setoguchi, but that won’t happen in Minnesota.
Third, Heatley had the real big years playing in the Eastern Conference, which is known for having more offensive teams, while the West plays tougher defense. I like Heatley for 30 goals, but I’m not going to hold my breath for that total. 25 goals is very likely on this team.
by JDesthubert on Sep 13, 2011 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
If Mittens could score 20 with Koivu
Heatley should easily score twice that if all goes well.
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I’ll concede that Mittens probably should have had 30+, but there are a couple things to factor in:
1) Still the West. I’ll hold to the argument that the West has tougher defensive opponents than the East.
2) The defense. How well will the Wild actually be able to start breakouts? Do the Wild have the blueline to move out of the zone cleanly? It was a major problem last year (breakouts), and now the Wild are down Burns. Offense starts in the defensive zone. Plus, neither Setoguchi nor Heatley are known to be two-way forwards, so will there be even more pressure on Mikko and the D?
3) Age. Heatley is 30, and that’s when goal-scorers tend to slow down their pace. Is it set in stone he will continue to tail off? No. Has there been a noticeable dip in production since Heatley left the Senators? Yes. Am I going to believe that Heatley is going to get better past this age? Not really.
4) New coach, new system, new players. I believe there will be an adjustment period. While it’s hard to believe the adjustment time will be as bad as under Richards, that time to get acclimated to Yeo and his system will cost the Wild some early games. I don’t expect them to be sharp and hitting on all cylinders right away; hence, I don’t think we’ll see Heatley light it up early.
Like I said, I like Heatley for 30, but 25 seems right considering all of the X Factors for the Wild. I just don’t see 40.
by JDesthubert on Sep 13, 2011 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would agree with most points,
How ever, I believe Heater is good for 40-45. PP time is going to be high, and thats where he will do his magic.
My predictions for this season-
Heater 40g-50a-90 pts.
Koivu, 30-60-90
Seto 35-40- 75
Butch- 25- 60- 85
Cullen- 25-40- 65
Lats- 30- 40- 70
those are my predictions for the top 2 lines.
I don’t understand how people here can actually believe Heatley will do better with an inferior Wild team than he did with a stacked San Jose team. Three straight seasons with a declining shooting percentage, and I’m supposed to actually believe he will score 40-45?
Mikko Koivu has never once broken 22 goals in a season. His highest point total is 71 points. You have him projected for 30 goals and 90 points. That’s a major increase in totals.
Setoguchi has broken 30 goals once in his career. Same as Heatley, am I really supposed to believe he’ll have career numbers in Minnesota?
PMB with 85 points? SERIOUSLY? High total is 63 points with Rolston firing a cannon for 30+ goals.
Latendresse with 40 assists? Who’s going to score on that line that many times? Even when he had his short burst with the Wild, he netted 12 total assists. Plus, you’re projecting elite numbers for a guy who’s shown he can do that for 55 games out of 298 games.
Temper your expectations; otherwise, you’re going to be moaning and crying all season.
by JDesthubert on Sep 13, 2011 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The reasons he will do better with the Wild than with SJ
He’s the go-to guy here. More TOI, time to nurse his injuries in the off-season, playing with his chum Setoguchi, the absolute PP general on the team, Koivu dishing him some gold platter passes, and he’ll be given more opportunities, becuase in SJ, he had to share his chances with a lot of stars. In Minny, it’ll pretty much be Heatley and Setoguchi.
But yeah, those projected numbers are insane, especially for the second line.
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Oh yeah, and Cullen has never once broken 50 points in an NHL season, but I’m supposed to believe at the age of 35 he’s going to have a career year?
The main reason he never broke 50
Injuries. He is a 50 point player, with the right number of games, but he is NO WAY IN HELL a 65 point player.
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Those numbers are extremely high. I do think that some of them are attainable but not likely. Most people believe that Heatley will do a better job here than SJ because he wasn’t given the opportunities with said stacked lines. I do believe he will score around 30-35 goals but won’t be surprised if he does come closer to or slightly above 40. I don’t think Burns was as good at leading breakouts up the ice as he was at finishing the breakouts and don’t expect a big problem getting the puck out of the zone this year. I do think the def is going to be the biggest problem for this team this year but at the same time if Zidlicky can remain healthy they should be okay. One thing you have to consider is they got rid of there biggest hole in the def end in Barker and replaced him with a much more reliable Lundin. That being said I don’t think the defense will be as bad as it looks on paper but def will not score many goals as last year.
Here are some more reasonable expectations for the top two lines if everyone can stay healthy.
Heatley 35-40-75
Koivu 25-50-75
Seto 30-30-60
PMB 15-40-55
Cullen 15-30-45
Tender 25-20-45
Wow those are lofty stats there.
Let’s keep it a little more real here:
Heatley – 32g-30a-62 pts.
Koivu – 26g-56a-82 pts.
Seto – 23g-20a-43 pts
PMB – 15g-45a-60 pts.
Cullen – 15g-30a-45 pts.
Lats – 22g-20a-42 pts.
I think the most a single team has had since the lockout is four (09-10 Capitals, 05-06 Red Wings).
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by red army line on Sep 20, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Stop talking about how the west has a tougher defense please. The amount of goals were almost identical while the East gave up slightly more goals than the West.
You can believe whatever you want, but stylistically, the West plays a different type of hockey. There are still plenty of offensively loaded teams to boost goal differentials, but the West does have more teams that play defense-first hockey.
If you don’t like the argument, fine, but don’t sit there and tell me what to say and what not to say.
The stats don’t support your theory. The West allowed more goal then he East last year. The Wild are in a division with Vancouver who did allow the least amount of goals last season yeas, but they also had CO who was the worst and EDM who was the 3rd worst in the entire league. Then there Calgary who is below average as well. I am saying support your theory please.
You’re going to point to the worst teams in the conference and then tell me to support my theory? Obviously the West will look skewed when each team in the conference got to beat up on Colorado, Edmonton, and Minnesota. That doesn’t mean that teams like Nashville, Detroit, Phoenix, Calgary, Vancouver, St. Louis, and Phoenix don’t play defense first. Just goals scored doesn’t indicate anything about style of play.
Now, I’m not saying the East scores more goals, which is what you’re trying to make this about. I’m saying that the Western Conference has a different style of play than the East.
In addition, I’m talking about the Eastern Conference when Heatley played for Atlanta and Ottawa, not last year. Obviously the Sharks aren’t in the Eastern Conference.
by JDesthubert on Sep 14, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Comparing GF and GA across conferences isn’t all that reliable (just like you can’t directly compare GF and GA per game rates between the KHL and NHL because of varying amounts of talent). The West I’d say is much better than the East, especially the depth—I don’t see a single West team that I would lay $1000 on for missing the playoffs (like I’d do with Winnipeg, Florida, Ottawa, or Toronto).
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I believe in next year.
by red army line on Sep 20, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions
If he scores 30, it’ll be high 30, because I don’t see how a sniper of his caliber could only score 5 more than Mittens and as many as Lats did in 55 games on the 2nd line. He had an off year. Many players have off years. OV had an off year. Do you think that will happen again? Don’t bet on it.
That first year with SJ, Heatley scored 42, and people keep underestimating Koivu’s prowess as a assist-man. There is potential for 40. He’ll be the go to guy. Heck, Gaby scored 42 when he played with Demitra. I know they had mad chemistry, but Gaby also scored 38 all by himself.
There’s a mix of homerism and negativity on this thread, I’m saying that, realistically, 35-40 should happen.
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Uh, Heatley didn’t score 42 in San Jose. He scored 39 his first year, and 26 last year.
Also, I’m not underestimating Koivu’s ability at all. Joe Thornton, a better playmaker, played with Heatley, yet Dany still never broke 40 in the teal. As underrated as Mikko is across the league, he’s not better than Jumbo Joe.
I’m not trying to be a negative nancy, but telling me that Dany Heatley is going to have a better statistical season than the two he had in San Jose (a better team with better linemates) is absurd. Koviu and Seto are good, no doubt, but they’re not Thornton-Marleau or Alfredsson-Spezza good.
by JDesthubert on Sep 14, 2011 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Meh
Thornton and Koivu are different players, I don’t think you can compare them.
Haha, wasn’t meant to be a straight and equal comparison of all talents. I mean that Joe Thornton is a better playmaker than Mikko Koivu.
Not that this is what this post is about but
Thornton is a better playmaker but Koivu is a better overall player. I have never seen Thornton play physical especially for a guy so big. I don’t think we will ever hear the name Thornton in the same conversation as the word Selke ever either. Not that Koivu will ever become a Selke winner either but just saying. And I would rather have Ryan Getzlaf than either of them but that is just me.
I wouldn't put it past Koivu to win the Selke
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by Georgie Fruit on Sep 16, 2011 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions
One thing your forgeting
Is heatley was playing with a broken hand for a chunk of the season. How large, no one knows because they didnt say when it broke. But if you look at his stats through about 2.5 months he was on pace for 37 goals, than kind of fell off the map. Its not out of the question, thats when it happened. A broken hand could have a huge effect on a guy who’s main weapon is his shot. I personally think he will get 30-40, if I had to guess an exact number im gonna say 33. But he will be the go to guy here, playing first PP and First line so he will get every chance in the world to get 40+. We simply don’t have the secondary scoring that SJ had.
Whoops.
The 42 comes from Gaby’s goal total. My bad.
You’re forgetting that while Thornton is hella good, he’s not the player he used to be either and if Heatley didn’t have to share goals with Marleau, he would EASILY surpassed 40.
JS, Champion of the first ever Hockey Wilderness Playoff Bracket Challenge! WHOOOOOOOO!
Author, watchdog, enforcer and french-canadian connection for Hockey Wilderness.
twitter: BubbleWild48
yeah those stats were wayyyy too high.
Heater 32-40 72
Koivu 22-60 82
Seto 26 25 51
PMB 18 48 66
Cullen 12 30 42
Glat 26 24 50
A huge positive to having Seto on a line with Lats
is how often Seto shoots and how many potential rebounds Lats can hack at in front of the net due to those shots. That doesn’t seem like too bad of a mix to me!
Also, I think that Yeo is throwing out these lines because he may feel that Seto and Heater are more comfortable together on the ice, even if they didn’t play together that much in SJ. It seems like a decent idea, but as the season progresses that idea should (hopefully) become irrelevant and Seto and Heater will have developed a chemistry with other players.
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While we're on the subject of scoring...
I think that people are putting too much stock into Heatley and not enough into Setoguchi. While Heatley is the dynamic goal-scorer, Setoguchi and his success (or lack thereof) will have a more immediate impact on the long-term health of the franchise. I, for one, will be watching Seto much more closely than Heatley.
I think this is probably the biggest reason why Yeo has Seto on the first line.
The kid is 24, he’s a couple years removed from his big, breakout first season. He’s struggled with consistency. He’s also struggled for ice time, especially high impact ice time. It’s time for the Wild to see just what they have in Setoguchi, really start trying to develop him into a legitimate top line winger and scorer. Between Heatley and Seto, I think Seto’s skills and game are going to be the best match for how Koivu plays, and I think that the Wild are hoping to cement that connection so that the youth movement can supplement it, not hope to create a top scoring pairing.
Top line minutes, a regular spot on the PP, being thrown into the high pressure minutes and moments that make or break a game. This will either push Setoguchi to further develop his game and confidence, or it will show that he’s best suited as secondary scoring. He’s 24 and he’s had 3 seasons in the league already. This is the one to challenge him to step up and take a claim at being an offensive leader.
Heatley will help create space for Setoguchi, as his shot and reputation will have to be respected. I also think that being on a line with Setoguchi will actually help create space and time for Heatley’s shot. Heatley will be important to the Wild as immediate scoring, helping the team stay interesting and perhaps push for a playoff spot, and maybe as a good deadline trade down the line. Setoguchi… the Wild will hope that he proves to be a long-term answer as a top 6 scorer.
by Krotz the Wall on Sep 20, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
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