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Around SBN: Yankees Deny Rumors That Team Is For Sale

When in Doubt, Fire Them All?

Last night, the Wild took a bad loss. Up 4-1 almost half way through the third period, they gave up four goals and lost 5-4. You have read all about it here and other places. It was ugly, it was frustrating, and is was completely disappointing. If you aren't angry about it, you likely aren't much of a fan. So it goes with fans and their team.

Reaction to the loss has been polarizing. There are a handful of people that see it for what it is: one loss. There are others who see it as more than that, a symptom of a disease no one can quite diagnose. Finally, there are a very vocal group of people who think this game should be the end of Mike Yeo and / or Chuck Fletcher.

Yes, really. Read the comment section here on the gamer. Read the comments over on Russo's stories for the day. Check out Twitter. Some have been receptive to a calming argument, others have not. It's pervasive at this point, and I don't get it.

Make the jump, and let's see if we can't hash this out.

Star-divide

Fire Mike Yeo

Let's start this with a question. What does firing Mike Yeo accomplish?

From what I can see, firing Mike Yeo either puts Darryl Sydor in charge, or brings in another new coach with another new system for the players to learn. If Sydor is in charge, you have another rookie coach taking over. The only possible benefit is a shock to the players to make them pay attention. Yet, if they didn't get that from Todd Richards being fired, why does it change if it is Mike Yeo?

Yeo's system works, when the players play it. You've all seen the proof. Is it that easy to forget that the team was winning while playing the system their coach wants them to play? If so, this fan base is as fragile as the team they love. If you have NHL Center Ice, or a DVR filled with Wild games, go back and watch a game from when they were winning. Then watch last night's game, or a game from the losing streak. Notice any differences?

The argument can be made that when a team struggles, their coach has lost them. I don't see that. This team, save for those being held accountable, seem to be behind Yeo and his system. Watch the guys who are playing within the system. Any of them seem to have an issue with the coach? Think Nick Johnson wants to see Mike Yeo fired? Mikko Koivu? Dany Heately?

Doubtful.

Ask yourself what is accomplished in the firing of a coach, mid-season, with an already fragile team on your hands. Think the Wild suddenly become Cup contenders?

Fire Chuck Fletcher

Same question: What does firing Chuck Fletcher accomplish?

How are you willing to fire a GM three years into a rebuild that hasn't been allowed to run a true rebuild? Craig Leipold wants an entertaining product while Chuck Fletcher rebuilds behind the scenes. To quote the movie Gladiator for the 1000th time in a week, "Are you not entertained?"

The type of situation Fletcher was hired to fix, and the manner he was asked to do it in, is incredibly complex and extremely difficult. HWSRN left this organization with nothing. Nothing at all. No one wants to keep blaming the past, and many will point out that Fletcher has turned over enough players that this is his team now. I disagree.

Pierre-Marc Bouchard gets hurt, who do they have to call up? Jed Ortmeyer. Nothing against Ortmeyer, but he isn't a fill in for Bouchard. The same goes for every injury at every position, save for goalie. The top goalie prospect? Drafted by Fletcher. The HWSRN regime is still hurting this team, even if no one wants to admit it.

So, if you are on the "fire everyone" campaign, you are willing to fire a guy who has stocked the Wild organization with exciting prospects for the first time in team history, and you are willing to do so a full year before he even gets a chance to sign his top draft picks? That's cold.

Looking at what Fletcher was asked to do - rebuild behind the scenes while putting a competitive product on the ice - it is difficult to argue he has not done exactly that. Trades haven't all worked out, but would the old regime have brought excitement to a fan base with big trades? With any trades at all? Would the old regime have been able to draft as well as the current administration?

As mentioned in the comment section on the gamer, this reeks of football think. Have a problem? Draft to fix it. Football allows for immediate gratification, hockey doesn't. Nothing wrong with either system, but they are two completely different concepts. It takes years to rebuild a hockey team, even when making perfect draft picks. A football team can be resurrected with just one.

Firing Chuck Fletcher would be a travesty. When his team's picks come into Minnesota, and the Wild are competing for a Cup in five years (or sooner), will it be enough to give him retroactive credit?

Blood Thirsty

Minnesota sports are ripe with coaches and GMs given too many chances. That's a given. However, the Twins have nothing to do with the Vikings, who have nothing to do with the Wolves, who have nothing to do with the Wild. Your frustration as a fan of one team has no bearing on your frustration as a fan of another. The owners of the four major programs do not meet every month to plan how to make their organizations mediocre and bilk you of you hard earned money.

Once Minnesota teams started firing people, the fans became blood thirsty. Don't win in your first year? NEXT!

It's your right to want to fire the coach or the GM. When do you instead blame the guys making the big money (coaches and GMs don't make anywhere near what their players do)? When do you blame the people who deserve the blame? When, for the love of everything good and right, do you blame the players for not doing their jobs?

The system works, which means the coach fits. The organization is well stocked and getting better, which means the GM is doing his part. That only leaves one side of the triangle not holding up their end of the bargain.

Comment 40 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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AMEN

“Minnesota sports are ripe with coaches and GMs given too many chances. That’s a given. However, the Twins have nothing to do with the Vikings, who have nothing to do with the Wolves, who have nothing to do with the Wild. Your frustration as a fan of one team has no bearing on your frustration as a fan of another. The owners of the four major programs do not meet every month to plan how to make their organizations mediocre and bilk you of you hard earned money. "

by wildfansec108row11 on Feb 1, 2012 1:38 PM CST reply actions  

Ugh

Why do we even have to acknowledge the startribune comment section opinion? Wasn’t talking about it in the other threads enough.

Fletcher and Yeo’s Jobs are safe. They are not the problem, and I think are part of the solution.

by ThatGuy22 on Feb 1, 2012 1:38 PM CST reply actions  

Only acknowledging it because it leaked over here.

Editor:Hockey Wilderness Swarm Beat Writer:In Lax We Trust Now with more Twitterness: ReynoldsSBN

Master of unsustainable passive regression.

by BReynolds on Feb 1, 2012 1:44 PM CST up reply actions  

NHL Playoff Push Article>>>>

Says the Wild need to play just above .500 (15-12-5) to reach 90 points (which they project will capture the 8th spot). So with the bulk of the games down the stretch being at home, the heart and soul coming back in a week or so and others on their way I see no reason we should miss the playoffs. Granted, our play in the last month has been suspect, but .500 is not an insurmountable task. And in the post season, anything can happen. Last night made my eyes bleed but maybe getting rid of oversized infants and teaching guys that laying out on the ice is not proper defense (*cough*Falk*cough*) will right a few wrongs and make THIS season still worth a damn.

by iLoveHockey on Feb 1, 2012 2:08 PM CST reply actions  

Falk just needs to be reminded that

if you go down to block a shot or pass, you may be taking yourself out of the play so you better be damn sure you are going down at the right time against the right player. He made a mistake and it along with Prosser standing like a statue, led to a goal. I was pissed at the time and still this morning some but I’m getting over it. We should rally behind the team and help their confidence, not tear them down constantly and I can be as guilty of that as anyone.

by cgp711 on Feb 1, 2012 2:15 PM CST up reply actions  

If you factor in the loser point as a loss for the purposes of winning % (like I prefer)

All that is required is sub-.500 hockey @ 15-17. Of course, I realize you do need that aforementioned point and expect it 1 out of 5 games as a random educated guess.

In financial preparations for the playoffs with my STH partner, I am factoring in that the 3-4 teams realistically playing for the 7 and 8 spots in the Western Conference all really have an equal shot of playing themselves out of position as they do into position. It’s anybody’s game to lose… So, I guess prepare for the worst best and that means save the money for the playoffs.

In all honesty, the Wild are sitting right where I thought we might be entering the season. Maybe even a bit above those expectations. I really thought we might be solid “playoff pretenders” at this point. I have my doubts going towards the finish considering the continued awful terrible play, but we’re no where near mathematically eliminated. Baring another ridiculous losing streak, it probably comes down to the last week if not last game of the season.

Being from Minnesota, it would be rude to put something clever here.

by redheadzeb on Feb 1, 2012 2:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Fans are fickle

Like Bryan pointed out, fans expect immediate gratification. It doesn’t help that sports has taken on a “what have you done for me lately” attitude. I expected this backlash towards both Fletcher and Yeo considering the nature of sports fans. It’s sad, but it should have been expected in an environment and profession that is win-oriented.

Personally, I love the job that Fletcher has done in reloading the prospect pool (The only draft pick I’m not a fan of is Jonas Brodin). I don’t think it’s fair to fully judge Fletcher until his picks enter the system and start playing for either Houston or Minnesota. While it’s true that Granlund is the only “can’t miss” pick the Wild have, there is still plenty of talent and upside among the bunch.
I’m still a fan of Yeo. Maybe people have forgotten, but it’s nice to see a coach who understands the game and can diagnose the problems instead of saying, “I don’t know what’s wrong” all the time.

You know you're a Wild fan if Spam Whoopie Gerald-buns comes up in conversation
Regressing all the way back to high school hockey.
Mikael Granlund = Suomi Savior

by JDesthubert on Feb 1, 2012 2:31 PM CST reply actions  

Indeed...

Right now, the thing that would likely bring about the end of the Fletcher era would be if Yeo doesn’t hack it as a coach. Still, Fletcher has done a great job of getting well thought of prospects into the system. It will be on coaching to try to develop those kids, make them into NHL regulars, and of course luck to see if one of those guys develops into a star. So, it’s been a heck of a job by Fletcher as he didn’t have anything really to work with.

Yeo, no matter what happens this year unless he completely and absolutely loses the team, will be back next year. This year was always planned to be the beginning of that transition. The early success just caught a lot of people by surprise, as did the unexpectedly sharp lack of success. I too like Yeo as a coach, and I want to see what he can do with the team, especially as the kids start hitting the roster.

by Krotz the Wall on Feb 1, 2012 2:36 PM CST up reply actions  

You don't like Brodin?

He was dynamite in the World Juniors…especially in the finals. Russia simply couldn’t get anything past him.

I'm that ''ignorant dumbass'' who writes with the ''whiny idiot homer'' over at Hockey Wilderness.

Twitter: BubbleWild48

by JSLandry on Feb 1, 2012 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not saying he's a bad player by any stretch

I just don’t like the pick. Just one of those personal like/dislike moments.

You know you're a Wild fan if Spam Whoopie Gerald-buns comes up in conversation
Regressing all the way back to high school hockey.
Mikael Granlund = Suomi Savior

by JDesthubert on Feb 1, 2012 2:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Well

I understand. I thought it was a sketchy pick, but after seeing him play, I’ve come to like it

I'm that ''ignorant dumbass'' who writes with the ''whiny idiot homer'' over at Hockey Wilderness.

Twitter: BubbleWild48

by JSLandry on Feb 1, 2012 3:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Honestly, I didn't even think it was a sketchy pick

Brodin should make a decent pro, but I don’t see enough upside in his game.

Let’s say this is the defensman in three years (not predicting pairings or rankings):
Scandella – Spurgeon
Prosser – Falk
Stoner – Lorenz/UFA/#6 defensman
It’s still not a bad core. The only drawback is that there isn’t a lot of offense from the blueline. That’s not something that Brodin fixes. He basically takes over for Nick Schultz. It’s not a bad thing at all, but he’s replaceable.

Now, image if the Wild had taken either Armia or Bartschi:
Armia/Bartschi – Koviu – Granlund
Coyle – Phillips – Zucker
Bulmer – Larsson – Clutterbuck
The Wild could deal Setoguchi for a complimentary piece for the roster and still have snipers to boot. The team could even package Setoguchi and a guy like Haula for a better offensive defensman.

Even if the Wild keep Setoguchi, there’s still a major lack of top-tier goal scoring from the forwards. Of the prospects the Wild have coming through, only Zucker is really considered a sniper/finisher. I know people like to say to draft the best player available, but that mantra only works for the NFL because there are so many positions. The Wild should have drafted the best player in their biggest need area, and that’s still a sniper.

So while I think Brodin will be very serviceable, I don’t see the upside of having Brodin over Armia or Bartschi.

You know you're a Wild fan if Spam Whoopie Gerald-buns comes up in conversation
Regressing all the way back to high school hockey.
Mikael Granlund = Suomi Savior

by JDesthubert on Feb 1, 2012 3:53 PM CST up reply actions  

I think most of us wanted Bartschi or Armia

And it didn’t help when Bartschi went to the Flames.

by cgp711 on Feb 1, 2012 5:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Also...

We have some inside information that Fletcher is looking at another defensman this year in a draft with a much larger selection of very good defensmen. The Wild brass, along with just about anyone who pays attention to drafts, knew that the 2012 NHL Entry Draft was going to be filled with talented defensmen. They could have easily gotten a player that compares to Brodin.
Why pass on two different snipers that can absolutely shoot and draft Brodin when there were going to be PLENTY of defensmen in the 2012 draft?

You know you're a Wild fan if Spam Whoopie Gerald-buns comes up in conversation
Regressing all the way back to high school hockey.
Mikael Granlund = Suomi Savior

by JDesthubert on Feb 1, 2012 4:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I doubt it

Nothing against how Fletcher and Co. draft, but finding NHL-ready defensmen is so hard. Unless I’m mistaken, only Adam Larsson (New Jersey Devils) was a defensman that was drafted and started past 9 games in the NHL this year.

Defense in the NHL is the hardest position to learn, by far. As we have seen this year, there so much attention to detail for a defensman, especially in his own zone. It’s tough to ask an 18-year old who hasn’t played hockey as structured as NHL hockey to come in, grasp the system, and execute it well. The learning curve is just too high to reasonably expect defensemen to be ready in their first year.

You know you're a Wild fan if Spam Whoopie Gerald-buns comes up in conversation
Regressing all the way back to high school hockey.
Mikael Granlund = Suomi Savior

by JDesthubert on Feb 2, 2012 10:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Dan has mentioned that there are a few that have the potential to make an impact immediately.

Not saying they will, but since this draft is deep in defense, they might be able to find one.

by cgp711 on Feb 2, 2012 2:21 PM CST up reply actions  

True

Although if the Wild stay around the 8th spot in the West, the few that are there might already be off the board. Looking at the teams that are worse than Minnesota, you see a lot of squads that have massive defensive priorities:
In the West alone, teams like Edmonton, Anaheim, Columbus, and Colorado all could use a real cornerstone defenseman. In the East, you have teams like the Islanders who desperately need a franchise defensman, Tampa has to at least consider getting younger on the blueline, and Carolina has tons of needs everywhere except in goal. The immediate impact players may be off the board before the Wild even get up to the podium.
Still, it’s hard to project anything as the draft is a major crap shoot. There’s always weird decisions that occur on draft day. The Rangers took McIlrath in 2010 over Fowler despite the fact that they had 3 really good defensive defensman already in their system. Last year, Ty Rattie fell into the 2nd round despite being ranked 17th. Strange things happen during drafts, so there is the chance the Wild do get a gift in their lap.

You know you're a Wild fan if Spam Whoopie Gerald-buns comes up in conversation
Regressing all the way back to high school hockey.
Mikael Granlund = Suomi Savior

by JDesthubert on Feb 2, 2012 2:34 PM CST up reply actions  

TRADE BACKSTORM!!!!111!1!1

I'm that ''ignorant dumbass'' who writes with the ''whiny idiot homer'' over at Hockey Wilderness.

Twitter: BubbleWild48

by JSLandry on Feb 1, 2012 2:50 PM CST reply actions  

TRADE EREEERYONE!!!11!

http://twitter.com/knowsknothing

by jerem77 on Feb 1, 2012 3:08 PM CST up reply actions  

SCREW IT!

Move the team to Texas and we can live without the beeping NHL!!

Being from Minnesota, it would be rude to put something clever here.

by redheadzeb on Feb 1, 2012 3:14 PM CST up reply actions  

This

I'm that ''ignorant dumbass'' who writes with the ''whiny idiot homer'' over at Hockey Wilderness.

Twitter: BubbleWild48

by JSLandry on Feb 1, 2012 3:39 PM CST up reply actions  

x

"Believe in the system. For it shall bring light when there is dark, food when there is hunger, and shots when there are passes. This is the divine process." Yeo 4:18

by NorthernStar on Feb 1, 2012 4:08 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

haha well played, NorthernStar!

"90% of the game is physical. The other half is mental." - Yogi Berra

by cyroose on Feb 2, 2012 11:10 AM CST up reply actions  

One thing Minnesota franchises have never done is a complete rebuild

They always want to rebuild on the fly which doesn’t really work…The only true superstar the Wild have had is Gaborik and it shows.

by GooterBaby on Feb 1, 2012 4:23 PM CST reply actions  

Really?

What do you call the last few years of Timberwolves “basketball”?

"Believe in the system. For it shall bring light when there is dark, food when there is hunger, and shots when there are passes. This is the divine process." Yeo 4:18

by NorthernStar on Feb 1, 2012 4:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Or?

>1991 to 2000 Twins Baseball

Being from Minnesota, it would be rude to put something clever here.

by redheadzeb on Feb 1, 2012 4:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I new somebody would reference the Twins while I posted this.

The Timberwolves were rebuilding on the fly around Al Jefferson after they traded KG when they should have been trying to pick up a number one pick even though they prob would have lost the lottery.

by GooterBaby on Feb 1, 2012 7:45 PM CST up reply actions  

The Twins was more like 1995-2001

They did a pretty good job of re-building so I will give you that…right now they are doing it all wrong but thats a different story…Ima stick to hockey talk here.

by GooterBaby on Feb 1, 2012 7:47 PM CST up reply actions  

If they got rid of Fletcher

I’d seriously question the ownership of this team. I’m just as much a fan of what Fletcher has tried to do as I have been of the team. I’m also a fan of Yeo and I think calling for a coach’s job after a little more than half of a season is stupid.

by TC Mooch on Feb 2, 2012 7:27 AM CST reply actions  

I agree

I don’t want this turning into a circus of a team where any failure is going to cost you your job. Bryan made excellent points regarding Yeo, if they fire him, it would just be another rookie coach now that Hitchcock is off the market. I don’t know how people can forget that Yeo’s system works perfectly when everyone buys in and does their job. As for Fletcher, IMO he has done a fantastic job with his drafting/college free agents. I think this administration’s scouting is a HUGE upgrade over the previous regime. I think we will also see better development from our prospects in the system as well since Houston and the Wild are playing the same system now. Once we get rid of the old contracts from the DR era, and the new prospects are here for a while, then you can judge Fletch. To call for either’s heads right now is just plain ignorant.

by cgp711 on Feb 2, 2012 8:36 AM CST up reply actions  

One minor correction:
regarding Yeo, if they fire him, it would just be another rookie coach now that Hitchcock is off the market.

Actually, hiring Sydor would mean another rookie head coach, not necessarily any rookie head coach. Randy Carlyle of Anaheim, Terry Murray of Los Angeles, David Payne of St. Louis, and Jacques Martin of Montreal are four guys available that are not rookies.
Not saying any of those four would get the job. Just making a slight correction.

You know you're a Wild fan if Spam Whoopie Gerald-buns comes up in conversation
Regressing all the way back to high school hockey.
Mikael Granlund = Suomi Savior

by JDesthubert on Feb 2, 2012 9:45 AM CST up reply actions  

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